Curry Blake the General Overseer for John G Lake ministries with a smashing video on what NOT to say and what NOT to do to expose yourself further as a false teacher.
The saying:
He quotes Smith ‘punch people in the stomach to heal them’ Wigglesworth:
“If the spirit didn’t move me, I moved the spirit.”
Gosh, what power he must have had that he could forcibly move God. Disgusting, lying, manipulative con artists and smooth talkers.
Angus Buchan constantly mentions Smith Wigglesworth as being a great man of God.
The doing:
I hear Curry Blake made an appearance at Kobus van Rensburg (Spirit Word Ministries)http://discerningtheworld2.wordpress.com/2009/05/06/kobus-van-rensburg-%e2%80%93-self-anointed-prophet/
The Conclusion:
All these false teachers spread out like a spider’s web, each strand linking together. The message might be the same, it might even differ here and there, it might even seem like an entirely different message. But the centre of the web is the false Christ, the anti-Christ, Satan. He takes the truth and splits it, twists it and manipulates in to a billion different ideas.
But it all comes FROM him and it all leads BACK to him.
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Also here on my vodpod collection: http://vodpod.com/watch/1701743-curry-move-the-spirit-blake?pod=discerningtheworld
/Angus Buchan constantly mentions Smith Wigglesworth as being a great man of God. / BUT doing what Wigglesworth did was to be the NORMAL for Christians!
The greek word for the Holy Spirit is paraclete!
one who helps
helps who? helps the ambassador of Christ!
Mark 16 indicates that the Holy Spirit follows us as we proclaim the good news of the kingdom of God, here, now, before you!! and if you were so inclined to come into you! Christ in you, the Spirit of God in you. (1 Cor. 3:16-17)
Did Jesus just come to give His SPirit to 12 or more disciples and then disappear, abandoning us?!
Jesus says He has not forsaken us even til the end of time!
IF Jesus is with you, which I am sure you would agree??? THEN would it not be also correct to expect Christ to be moving???
UNLESS of course, we are not moving to the will of GOD, not doing HIs Word, acting in faith that produces!!
Will Christ move you like a puppet or has Christ who died for you ALREADY GIVEN you everything you NEED. ALL we need to do is abide, BE His hands and feet, doing as He would, even healing as He would, moving, walking the earth as He would. How can you call false what is to BE true?
The Christian is to BE, to BE as Christ is, to do everything as Christ did and still does!!
Christ had the Holy Spirit! We have the Holy Ghost! We have Christ! God has given us His all, the son of God, for you. Shall we now deny Him, His Will.
He is the author and finisher of our faith, therefore, we need to have faith that what Christ has begun in us is not treated as worthless and disregarded!
BELIEVE for we are adopted sons of God. Does that not speak volumes. If we are sons, then we are to walk like sons, not as dead men who can NOT MOVE mountains!
We were born again to MOVE as the living waters flow and not to be as though dead waters!!
Ronnie OBrien
>> Will Christ move you like a puppet or has Christ who died for you ALREADY GIVEN you everything you NEED.
Okie dokie then…so, you now have the power (because you are ‘born again’) to conquer the world, do EVERYTHING that Jesus did. Be like exactly like him…
There is a BIG diference between being born of the Holy Spirit and growing in Jesus Christ and becoming Jesus Christ and being able to do anything He could. How terrible to think that you could even consider wanting to be on His level. You speak about ‘being’ at his hands and feet, yet you say, ‘…, doing as He would, even healing as He would, moving, walking the earth as He would.”
How can you be bowed before Him and ruling at the same time?
>> Christ had the Holy Spirit!
Oops, no! He did NOT HAVE the Holy Spirit. He IS God, He IS the Holy Spirit. He didn’t get it later on during his life either. He was BORN of the Holy Spirit.
>> BELIEVE for we are adopted sons of God
Adopted??? from who? That’s a new one…now we are adopted…uh…so who created you exactly?
>> If we are sons, then we are to walk like sons, not as dead men who can NOT MOVE mountains!
When last did you see anyone move a mountain? Or walk on water for that matter? ONLY Jesus Christ can do these things…WE SEEK JESUS CHRIST FOR EVERYTHING WE NEED IN OUR LIVES. If you want to run after men, then so be it. Or hang on, is your plan to have men run after you…considering you should be able to do exactly what Jesus Christ could do while He walked this earth?
The stuff you speak is Manifest Sons of God talk through and through…
Smith Wigglesworth just another William Branham.
Discerning the World:
Let me show you what GOD says about some things you mentioned here. Anyone can speak for GOD because we have His written WORD. So lets see what God says about some things.
>> Christ had the Holy Spirit!
Oops, no! He did NOT HAVE the Holy Spirit. He IS God, He IS the Holy Spirit. He didnt get it later on during his life either. He was BORN of the Holy Spirit.
_________________
Hmmmm…. I dont know what to say here. Its true Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit. Do you remember when John the Baptist baptized Jesus and the HOLY SPIRIT came on HIM in the form of a dove. So did Jesus recieve the Holy Spirit then, or when He was born????
>> BELIEVE for we are adopted sons of God
Adopted??? from who? Thats a new one now we are adopted uh so who created you exactly?
We are not ‘adopted’ sons of God, we are sons of God. Romans Chapter 8 says Those who are led by the Spirit are the sons of God. :) If you’re not a son of God well then you’re not born again.
>> If we are sons, then we are to walk like sons, not as dead men who can NOT MOVE mountains!
When last did you see anyone move a mountain? Or walk on water for that matter?
Lol, do you really think Jesus was talking in literal terms. You’re joking right? Jesus spoke in parables correct? And what are parables? According to the Bible parables are so people could understand what Jesus was talking about in their culture. So lets go back to Hebrew thought. To the Hebrews a mountain being moved is a ‘symbol’ of a problem in the way of something. Take for example, if someone they knew had leprocy (the mountain) if they believed God would heal that person it would happen.
Tell me what pleases God? Is it theology that pleases God?
Or is it faith??? Is God interested in Christians bringing down other christians that have faith for the miraculous???
I’m sorry but to be honest I dont know what to say. You say this is a genuine Christian blog. What is genuine?? Genuine is actually possessing the alleged or apparent attribute or character. What is the character of Christ?? Holiness, compassionate, saving the lost, HEALING the sick, raising the dead. How can this be a genuine blog if you crush down every alleged Christian who see’s healing in their ministry. Seriously, IF Jesus was here today performing miracles on the streets, spitting in mud and wiping a persons eye with it would we cast him down as a “false prophet”. Would you write about how crazy this guy is and how he does so many “false” signs and wonders on your blog??? And what if Jesus had Peter with Him. I garuntee you 100% you would think Peter was a false prophet, do you know why. I’m not saying that to be mean, but I promise you Peter would be the biggest false prophet of our day according to you. DO you realize in Acts 3:4 when Peter saw the lame man at the gate of the Temple, John and Peter said “LOOK AT US” Do you realize that according to what you believe thats blasphemy. Thats outright BLASPHEMY. I have a question, Why did PETER AND JOHN, two mere humans, say LOOK AT US, why didn’t they say LOOK AT JESUS?? Lol sometimes theology is useless, i guess :) So if Peter was here and he was on TV and said “LOOK AT US” ‘unbelieving’ Christians would be the first to kill him and say “HEY THAT’S PRIDEFUL YOU’RE JUST TRYING TO GET ATTENTION, YOU SHOULD SAY LOOK AT JESUS. And once again I have to lol, because its absolute nonsense. I have one more verse you can meditate on.
“silver and gold have I none, BUT WHAT “I” GIVE TO YOU, RISE UP AND WALK.”
Lol, PETER said what I, WHAT I, I, I, I, WHAT I, give you rise up and walk, in Jesus name. :) Do you know why Peter said what I give you, b/c Peter had JESUS, and Jesus offers HEALING. If you’re a christian do you have Jesus??? Well then you can say what I give you RISE UP AND WALK IN JESUS NAME. You can only give what you have right? Well Christians have the Healing, Saving, Delivering Christ living and abiding in them.
Well I guess I’m done. I dont mean to sound so mean but their is SO MUCH unbelief against everyone who claims to do the works of Christ. Its outrageous. There’s one name I dont see on here yet. Jentzen Franklin believes healing is in the atonement, which to some is blasphemy. There’s another name on here you might want to write about who still operates in the miraculous……Jesus.
PS. I saw you said about being on the same level as Jesus. Well according to Jesus, our works, would be ABOVE HIS level. Remember Jesus’ words: These works I do, you shall do, and even GREATER, because I go unto the Father. Man thats absolutely amazing. The creator himself saying He would use us to do GREATER works than Jesus. I know for saying this I’m probably going to hell for blasphemy. (sarcasm). Let me say this so I dont confuse you. The level of works that He does I CAN do. BUT What I CANNOT do is save myself, I NEED His blood, His redemption and forgiving grace. As for ME being GOD, no way Im just a human like you. But as for GOD working in and through me to do awesome and mighty things, then yes I’m a human who has chosen to be used by God. Just allow Him to work through you as HE wants…not how we want. “ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE TO THOSE WHO BELIEVE”. Notice you have to believe ALL THINGS are POSSIBLE before they become possible. If you think you can’t be used by God to heal the sick, then you WON’T be used by God to heal the sick. I dont know why you have so much hatred for ministries that operate in the miraculous. Maybe you think ALL people who believe in the supernatural are greedy, selfish, and materialistic. Just because a few people portray that image doesn’t mean every single person is like that. I’m just as normal as a baptist or presbyterian. There’s one minor difference though. I believe ALL things are POSSIBLE, while the majority of Christians believe only some things are possible because God doesn’t operate in the same way as He did 2000 years ago. He still speaks to me. He said My Sheep know my voice. I experience the impossible while the majority read about the impossible. Does that make me a better Christian? Nope not at all. Just allowing the Holy Spirit to use me in anyway HE wants to use me. Just be open.
I just want to let you know all the points that I made were from SCRIPTURE, nothing else. Not my opinions but the WORD OF GOD. The Word of God is like a two edged sword sometimes.
Jesus Heals
Ok, so let’s just get this part out of the way quickly. You follow Word of Faith / Latter Rain / Manifest Sons of God teaching
Ronnie said: Christ had the Holy Spirit!
I said: Oops, no! He did NOT HAVE the Holy Spirit. He IS God, He IS the Holy Spirit. He didnt get it later on during his life either. He was BORN of the Holy Spirit.
You said: true Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit. Do you remember when John the Baptist baptized Jesus and the HOLY SPIRIT came on HIM in the form of a dove. So did Jesus recieve the Holy Spirit then, or when He was born????
Answer: Jesus had the Holy Spirit because He was born by the Holy Spirit. We was born God and man – Sinless. We walked this earth God and man – Sinless. He is God, the Holy Spirit and the Son of God. His Baptism was symbolic for the Jewish people watching that the Law no longer applies. He came to fulfill the law. And now they will receive the Holy Spirit for Jesus is the Lamb who will be sacrificed and His blood will wash away the sins of those who accept and believe in Him and repent of their sin.
If one says that Jesus was not born of the Holy Spirit and received it later then he was not born God and only became God later on in His life. This also means that if Jesus was not born of the Holy Spirit then Mary was not a virgin.
Luke 1:33-35
33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.”
34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
So either Jesus Christ was born of the Virgin Mary who was conceived of the Holy Spirit which means he was born sinless. Or he was born in a sinful manner and only become the Son of God later when He was Baptised. Pick one.
If one looks at the deeper meaning of Latter Rain teaching, this is exactly what they are saying. The entire point of teaching that Jesus received the Holy Spirit when He was baptised by these people is that when we are baptised by the Holy Spirit we become like Christ. And by this I mean, not in a genuine Christian sense, that when we are born again the Holy Spirit comes to abide in us and we will take on Christ like characteristics because of the conviction of the Holy Spirit in our lives. No they mean at you actually start to become like Christ and can do EXACTLY has He did when he walked on earth. They take the scripture of being ‘sons of God’ to mean exactly that. You become a ‘son’ of God (Jesus was the Son of God) so you become a little god!
Ronnie said: BELIEVE for we are adopted sons of God
I said: Adopted??? from who? Thats a new one now we are adopted uh so who created you exactly?
You said: We are not adopted sons of God, we are sons of God. Romans Chapter 8 says Those who are led by the Spirit are the sons of God. :) If youre not a son of God well then youre not born again.
Answer: Well you agree with me that we are not adopted, but you go on to speak Latter Rain teaching again. As I said above, the ‘son of God’ teaching is not what they make it out to be. The deeper meaning of this if you look back to the origins of this Manifest Sons of God movement is Metaphysical cult teaching. That when you believe and accept Jesus Christ into your life and the Holy Spirit comes to abide in you actually start to become like Christ. That you can be a son of God EXACTLY like Jesus IS the Only Son of God. One needs to distinguish what exactly these Latter Rain people are getting at.
Ronnie said: If we are sons, then we are to walk like sons, not as dead men who can NOT MOVE mountains!
I said: When last did you see anyone move a mountain? Or walk on water for that matter? ONLY Jesus Christ can do these things WE SEEK JESUS CHRIST FOR EVERYTHING WE NEED IN OUR LIVES. If you want to run after men, then so be it. Or hang on, is your plan to have men run after you considering you should be able to do exactly what Jesus Christ could do while He walked this earth?
You said: Lol, do you really think Jesus was talking in literal terms. Youre joking right? Jesus spoke in parables correct? And what are parables? According to the Bible parables are so people could understand what Jesus was talking about in their culture. So lets go back to Hebrew thought. To the Hebrews a mountain being moved is a symbol of a problem in the way of something. Take for example, if someone they knew had leprocy (the mountain) if they believed God would heal that person it would happen.
Answer: Of course I know Jesus spoke in parables, I was speaking to Ronnie based on what Latter Rain Manifest Sons of God teaching teachings. That we will be able to do exactly what Jesus did when he walked on earth, have the exact same power He has, because He was not born of the Holy Spirit, so he was born fully man. As per Latter Rain teaching if Jesus was born fully human, and we are born fully human, and Jesus received the Holy Spirit later on in His life he really completely become a Son of God, and when we are born again and receive the Holy Spirit, then we now too become a son of God. Just like Jesus did. There is a BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG ‘the infinite size of the universe’ BIG difference between Jesus Christ and us. He is GOD, He is the Holy Spirit, He is the Son of God. We will NEVER be on the same level as Jesus, ever. We will NEVER have the power He had, because we will never be a god of any kind.
Word of Faith speaks that, your words have power. To the extent that as you grow in godliness (and by this I mean as per their definition; as you actually become a god) you will be able to move mountains, create worlds. You can speak healing into your life, you can speak wealth into your life, you can speak things into other peoples lives. I am not kidding and I am pretty sure you have heard them say these things too, but when we hear things sometimes they go right over our heads, we think they too are speaking in parables, they cant be serious can they? Well yes they are serious.
This teaching of Latter Rain/Manifest Sons of God denies the 3 person God – the Trinity. Trinity teaches the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead. This means God is the Triune God, existing as three persons.
Latter Rain/Manifest Sons of God actually follows the teaching of Oneness. They speak about the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But the deeper meaning they believe is that when we become born again, we start to amalgamate (as we grow in Christ-likeness) with the Godhead, just like Christ. This is also the same basis of New Age teaching. We can all ascend to God level, like Christ did.
You said: I saw you said about being on the same level as Jesus. Well according to Jesus, our works, would be ABOVE HIS level
Woahhhh, thats a telling statement.
Answer: Let’s go and quote the verse you are trying to apply a different meaning too..
John 14:5-21
Jesus the Way to the Father
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.
12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father.
14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever
17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you.
18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.
20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”
Explanation: So, Thomas didn’t know what they were going to do without Jesus. He felt bewildered that Jesus who was GREATER than they were in every way possible was going to leaving them. How would they cope. Jesus said He is the Way the Truth and the Life, and that no man comes to the Father but through Him. He said that the person whos Jesus Christ will know who the Father is.
The Phillip was still confused. Because Jesus was still going to leaving them, they still did not understand how they would continue preaching the Gospel without Him. He gave them the strength to carry on. No one else could give them the strength. Phillip wanted Jesus to show them the Father. Phillip seemed to forget that Jesus and the Father were one and the same. Jesus said to Phillip, after all this time you still dont know who I am, He tells Phillip I am the Father. Then Jesus repeats Himself and says again, Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Jesus says, Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me Jesus and God are one and the same, but yet two different persons.
Now the verse that is so twisted by Latter Rain false teachers:
Jesus says: I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
He is no way meant that mankind will be greater than HIM and do better things than He did. How shocking to even think that way. Who do these people think they are? That they can be better and go even greater things than Jesus Christ the ONLY Son of God. Mankind WILL NEVER be above God. What did Satan do? He too tried to be above God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. And what happened to him? He was kicked out of Gods presence for ever. How much more so do you think you can get away with the EXACT same blasphemous thinking that you can be above God, a higher level than Jesus Christ who is the Father (God).
The disciples were worried how they would go out and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to all nations without the presence of Jesus Christ being with them. Jesus then said to them that they need not worry, for He is going to send them the comforter the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit will be their counselor when Jesus has left this earth to be seated at the right hand of the Father. Jesus also says that no one in the world had even known about the Holy Spirit, the 3rd person of the Trinity. And they wont be able to just accept Him because they cant see Him and wont know Him unless the know Jesus Christ who is the Father.
So even though Jesus was leaving them He was not, for is the Holy Spirit who is the Way, the Truth and the Life and leads us unto all truth, knowledge of the Word of God (The Word is Jesus Christ) and remembrance of Jesus Christ. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”. John 1:1
Jesus tells the disciples that whoever believes in Him and obeys His commands will be born again of the Holy Spirit who will council them on the Word of God. And give them the strength to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ loud and clear. Jesus says that the person who REALLY loves Him will receive the Holy Spirit Buy this Jesus also means He will show Himself and the Father to them through the gentle whisper of the Holy Spirit. He will not physically show Himself to you (so dont go misunderstanding me either)
Jesus only preaches in areas that He could reach on foot during the time He walked this earth. When Jesus spoke about us going out and doing greater things than He, He in NO WAY meant we will be greater than Him. He meant that we will be able to spread the Gospel of Jesus, the GREAT commission to all nations, which is more than He could do during His time on earth. And the Holy Spirit, will be our counselor and comforter during this time, because preaching the Gospel and standing up for the truth, the un-twisted word of God is the most daunting task ever.
Like when I have to answer the continuous bombardment of comments on my blog; from people who dont want to TEST what they have been taught. And take a verse here and there because that is what they heard their pastor say. I mean these great men of God as they love to call themselves would never preach another gospel no, no. Just believe what they say is true.
Now having said all that – go take your Bible and go back to basics and study it correctly.
>> You said: I just want to let you know all the points that I made were from SCRIPTURE, nothing else.
So I want to let you know that all the points I made as based on un-twisted scripture, nothing else. And lastly ALL things are POSSILBE through Jesus Christ the Son of God.
Tell Tale Signs that Latter Rain has Poured into your Church: http://discerningtheworld2.wordpress.com/2009/06/15/tell-tale-signs-that-latter-rain-has-poured-into-your-church/
William Branham – False Prophet: http://discerningtheworld2.wordpress.com/2009/05/09/william-branham-false-prophet-2/
Joyce Meyer is a Little God With a Big Christ Consciousness: http://discerningtheworld2.wordpress.com/2009/05/11/joyce-meyer-is-a-little-god-with-a-christ-consciousness/
Thanks for your reply:
To be honest I don’t follow any preacher in the Latter Rain movement. I’ve heard of William Brahnam but never really read any of his books. I don’t take preachers word for word for they are just human and can make mistakes. There’s a difference in between complete heresy and something that a preacher says and we don’t agree with. The preachers that I like are not involved in the third wave prophetic movement. Being a pentecostal myself, I believe that 98% of the NAR are false prophets who love to tickle peoples ears. I’ll name some pastors who I believe to be genuinely saved not because their works but because they stand for the word of God. I’m sure that you can find some fault in everyone of these preachers. Gregory Dickow is a good preacher who preaches the love of God, faith, and how to use your God given gifts and abilities. Another one is Jentzen Franklin. He has a very powerful repentance and back to the basics style of preaching. Another one I listen to in which their is some controversy among Christians is Joseph Prince. I’ve never watched him on daystar television just saw him on youtube and read parts of his book “Destined to Reign.” Which I agree with most of it, not all of it. But just because I dont agree with him 100% does that make him a false prophet? No it makes him a man, like you and me. Another thing I noticed is that preachers that preach grace are under attack alot. The new testament church is based on grace not law. And the question has to be asked should the Law be taught in modern day churches? Paul said the Law was for sinners to see how sinful they were. So if a church, who is full of Christians, preaches Law its completely useless. Some people say “Well so and so doesn’t preach hell fire and brimstone.” But do Christians need to be taught week in and week out about hell. Of course not, Paul said that eternal judgement, laying on of hands, the resurrection, and baptisms were all elementary teachings of the faith. Paul actually got mad that the churches kept talking about these things every chance they got. Paul wanted to go deeper in the things of God. Paul’s ultimate teachings in the New Testament are based on two subjects. One Christ and Him crucified. And two, that in order for a christian to live a victorious life they must understand the importance of Christ in them. Paul mentioned the new creation and the power of the resurrected Christ in the believer MORE than he tought about hell. Thats because these christians for the most part already knew about hell. They needed to move on to the deeper things in God. I hate churches that keep reminding the believers of how sinful we are. I dont need to be reminded of how sinful I am. In Romans, Paul said that no matter how sinful we are that we are made RIGHTEOUS because of Christ. So the main message in todays christian churches should be “You are RIGHTEOUS, because Christ bestowed, His righteousness on us.” If we are crushing our brothers and sister in Christ with the law its totally USELESS. But if we tell an unsaved person about the law to show their sin and their need for a savior then its completely ok. Because thats who the law is for, sinners. Ok on to the next person. I truly believe one of the most powerful evangelists in our lifetime is Jimmy Swaggart. Let me say this, because I probably know what you’re thinking. Jimmy Swaggarts problem in the 80′s wasn’t false doctrine or theology, it was women. Just like David in the Old Testament. Jimmy Swaggart after he committed the things he did actually came on tv and repented for what he did. Did Todd Bentley come on tv and repent and have remorse? Absolutely not. He actually got married to the person he committed aldultery with. Stay far far away from Todd Bentley.
But as for these men mentioned above they all come short of the glory of God just like you and me. Just because we dont agree with something a preacher has to say, that doesn’t make it heresy. Heresy is something totally unscriptural and usually focuses on self, rather than Christ. I’m not into Kenneth Copeland or any of the materialistic preachers. I will say that God wants His people to prosper and be out of debt. Theres no question. I think it was James who said, I wish you would prosper and be in health even as your soul prospers. But there’s a difference in between prosperity for ME and God blessing me to bless OTHERS. Do you realize that if I have a prosperous business and I see a christian brother or sister who is struggling financially and I help them out, how much of an impact that would have on their lives? Honestly, lets say you had $10,000 in debt and had a mortgage for $50,000 and you lost your job. If a Christian who is financially secure is open to the Holy Spirit, and speaks to them, to give you $60,000 because I make $500,000 a year would that have an impact on your life. I garuntee it would. Thats why God wants to bless us, to bless others. Not to go out and get a nice car and big house, but to pass on what you have. Not that having those things is wrong. If I’m a real estate investor and make 3million a year is it wrong for me to buy a house I can afford, with the money I made honestly? Of course not. God isn’t against wealth, he’s against greed. Pat Robertson is an investor and a business owner, is it wrong for him to be that rich? Of course not, as long as he’s not keeping it all to himself. Robert Morris, who is a pastor I think in Texas has a book called “The Blessed Life.” The whole heart of that book is to be used by God to bless others. In the course of his life he has given away 2 or 3 houses, 11 cars, and thousands of dollars in cash. Now thats why God wants to bless us.
The reason I say this is because its on my heart to see the Church blessing everyone not just spiritually but financially as well. Its on my heart to use the creative ideas and gifts that God has given us to use them to the full extent. Did you know God gives everyone a choice to be wealthy? Its true. Every person whether believer or non believer make their own choices and have a certain amount of determination. If you’re happy at your job making $10 an hour then nothing will change you. But if you’re determined to use the gifts and talents and creative thoughts God has given you then you will succeed.
I trust my Bible and the Holy Spirit’s revelation more than any preacher.
You said:
Jesus only preached in areas that He could reach on foot during the time He walked this earth. When Jesus spoke about us going out and doing greater things than He, He in NO WAY meant we will be greater than Him.
But what does Jesus say in the following verse. “Ask anything in my name and I will do it.” Do we need to ask and get permission to preach the gospel? Doing greater works than Jesus doesn’t make us greater than Jesus. It just means we’re co-laboring with Christ. It just means Jesus is doing the same things he did 2000 years ago, just through mere humans. It means imitating God like Paul said. When a child imitates his father what does that mean? The kid will say what the father says. The kid will act the way the father acts. The kid will do what the father does. Thats what imitating Christ is. Just being like Jesus, in word and deed. Not just living a holy life, but impacting the world. Not just reading about the miracles of Christ, but participating in the miracles of Christ. When you got born again you recieved power to heal the sick, save the lost, and raise the dead. Whether you believe it or not. All Christians are completely full of God 100%. So if we have the fullness of God can He through us do the works He did 2000 years ago? Yes, because he’s the same yesterday, today and forever.
Colossians 2:9-10 9 For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10. So YOU also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.
So this verse is saying in Christ lives the fullness of God in a human body. Who lives in us? Yes, Christ does. So WE are complete because of HIM. So basically all the things Christ has we have, because of Him. Remember what I said earlier, we are made righteous because of Him. Everything that is in Christ we have because Christ lives in us. I’m not saying we are God because thats not the case. I’m saying we have the attributes and character of God bestowed on us on His behalf. I am holy because HE is holy. I am righteouss because HE is Righteous. I can do the things HE does, because HE is in me. You need to understand the whole message of the new testament is Christ in us the hope of glory. All throughout the Old and New Testament one of the main subjects was God making His home in us. God living and breathing through us. Complete communion with Him in which we were created. God’s main reason for creating man was to commune with Him, to walk and talk with Him and love Him, nothing else. Sin came in the world and destroyed (for awhile) communion with Him. When Christ came he destroyed the veil and gave us direct access to God, in which God through Christ lives in us. God communing with His people is basically the whole complete Bible.
I’m done. And once again thanks for your reply.
God Bless.
Jesus Heals – said on June 26th, 2009
http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/06/01/curry-blake-on-what-not-to-say-and-do/#more-5376
“Thats because these christians for the most part already knew about hell. They needed to move on to the deeper things in God. I hate churches that keep reminding the believers of how sinful we are. I dont need to be reminded of how sinful I am.” (whole context).
>>> yah! ‘those’ christians did know. But if this was true, then why does Paul keep pointing out the things they should stop doing? Why does he repeat word for word the things they’ve been set free from? Isn’t it like telling them over and over again how sinful they are? So, will you get up and walk out of Paul’s church, or maybe not attend at all? 1 or 2 examples:
“1Cor. 6: 18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.” >>> Paul is warning, he’s stipulating the sins that can draw you to hell. He’s telling the people how sinful they are. And then (as DTW mostly do in articles) he points them to salvation.
Gal 5: 19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.” >>> again Paul lists a whole lot of sin. Telling the people what sin could be in their lives. Even “warn” them again!
But please do explain what are these “deeper things in God” and which scripture(s) do you use to confirm it?
I’m not gonna take up more space on this. Search words, phrases, whole texts at BibleGateway.com.
“IF Jesus was here today performing miracles on the streets, spitting in mud and wiping a persons eye with it would we cast him down as a “false prophet”. Would you write about how crazy this guy is and how he does so many “false” signs and wonders on your blog???”
sorry, DTW would have known / would have recognized Jesus (just as many around Him did) BECAUSE of the prophecies coming true and the signs performed before hand. I’m almost sure she would have been a follower way back then also… and healed the sick and drive out demons … which she does, but she don’t shout it out on the street corners or on blogs etc. for it is God who works through the acts of redemption through our Lord Jesus Christ.
aren’t you a little bit confused? Let’s come back to today. DTW warns by discerning false prophets, false faiths, false christs, false religions, false …. whatever is not in the Bible, the Word of God. She did not “oppose” or contradict or crushed me on my testimony on another page’s comment, when I shared how I’ve prayed for someone and another, and so on, and they were healed! Why not? Well, I did not asked her yet, but I assume it is because I don’t go “bam bam” or wham wham or don’t push people, don’t scream in their faces, don’t use repetitive words, don’t try to be God by thinking “I have healed them”. Which is what most of the people DTW warns others about, is doing. THE SAD THING about it is that most of the times, people healing the sick, casting out demons, etc. are following the example they saw in another person, and NOT because they are so “in contact” with the Lord Jesus Christ, that it just flows naturally. (apply this paragraph also to your comment/question on DTW crushing people…)
º Then you talked about Peter (really, you should stop ‘making up things which you so want to be true!) on which I want to say:
>>> DTW would have probably been one of the followers next to Peter, if it were possible, giving some guidance to the man afterwards of how to walk this new road in Christ …. (me thinks)
“Stay far far away from Todd Bentley.”
>>> (in this I don’t protect or under-scribe T. Bentley!) T. Bentley is a general in Joëls Army. Thousands of youth and young ones follow him like sheep, never ever questioning his teachings, because it “sounds Biblical”! He’s being (still) promoted by 80% of the main spiritual leaders in the world saying – he is human, he made a mistake, we cannot hold that against him… restore, forgive, forget …. Yet, he never (according to my knowledge, renounced his old sinful ways, they just withdrew him from all the attention – one of these days he’ll be “rising up” again, doing “even greater things”. SO, should we not now (following your example) give you a books’ knowledge about working of miracles (straight from the Bible) and teaching (especially young + youth), and baptizing people (straight from the Bible), forgiveness (straight from the Bible), how to restore people and give them 6 more chances to mislead people, especially youth who are easily indoctrinated) as to tell you you are SO wrong in speaking against T. Bentley?
DTW can’t write of all the “right things”, the “right people” etc. The focus is to discern, to warn! She knows they’re (it is) right. Because it’s a blog for “real Christians”, one assumes they will know DTW will shed light on “wrong” things?
“But what does Jesus say in the following verse. “Ask anything in my name and I will do it.”
>>> you should know by now not to use a part of a verse, or even – just one verse – to ‘proof’ what you want to! “to ask God and He will do it” is a whole study in itself. And then even in Mark 10 Jesus refused to grant what were asked.
“Do we need to ask and get permission to preach the gospel? Doing greater works than Jesus doesn’t make us greater than Jesus. It just means we’re co-laboring with Christ.”
>>> please can you stipulate scripture verses when you write about it? My comment on this: so why preach the gospel? If you quote THIS verse, we can just ask for someones salvation and Christ will do it (all of it) himself. DTW was talking from viewpoint of what Latter Rain teachings. They DO teach that men actually become greater, become gods. So please, be consequent in your writings and viewpoints and belief(s)! Just above you say “ask anything ….” and you take it as ‘fact’. Now suddenly you want to explain what something means! And again, the danger is there that the root of what you belief is in Latter Rain, as DTW tried to explain.
This writer is reminding me of a friend who ALWAYS have to have his say, saying exactly what the previous speaker said, just in (his) other words. But I’m glad you got that off your chest…
“the whole message of the new testament is Christ in us the hope of glory.”
>>> uuuuhhhmmm – I thought the whole message of the new testament is Christ, and Him crucified for us?
1 Corinthians 1:23 – “but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,”
1 Corinthians 2:2 – For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
message new testament >>> have a look at this: this is the REAL message of the New Testament, Jesus Christ is LORD! Well, this is what I think, you might differ. I rather see Christ in us the hope of glory as the purpose, not the message.
“All throughout the Old and New Testament one of the main subjects was God making His home in us. God living and breathing through us.”
>>> I got a blonde moment, please supply scripture?
“What is the character of Christ??” >>> the same as God’s, because He is God.
>>> = Characteristics
All-powerful, Omnipotent – eg. Psalm 135:5
Compassionate – eg. Psalms 145:9, Matthew 9:36 NIV
Eternal – eg. Revelation 1:8 NIV
Faithful, Trustworthy – eg. Psalms 100:5 NIV
Holy – eg Isaiah 6:3 NIV
Impartial – eg. Romans 2:6
Incomprehensible – eg. 1 Corinthians 2:16
Unchanging, Immutable – eg. Hebrews 6:17-18
(there could be more, one can always google search!)
you were right with 2, BUT what you have stipulated thereafter are the works He did, which we too are commissioned to do – saving the lost, healing the sick, raising the dead.
“I trust my Bible and the Holy Spirit’s revelation more than any preacher.”
>>>Yes, and that you should do. But don’t you agree that we are being influenced to some extend by what we hear? And those who speak do not all have the Bible and the Bible only as their frame of reference.
“Just being like Jesus, in word and deed.”
>>>not forgetting that we have a sinful nature. Jesus was God + man. We are just man.
“Complete communion with Him in which we were created.” (my bold added)
>>> I hope this is a typing mistake? Because that would make God an “it”, a “something”…
>>> so you’re done, bible study finished.you have much more studying and reading to do… enjoy
cecilia
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Peter, you are welcome to make comments. However, we only except the Bible as authoritative. Extra-Biblical revelation to support a position will not be posted. Admin.
Curry Blake got 90% of his Healing Teachings from the Book HEALING THE SICK, By T.L.OSBORN. In Osborns book T.L. OSBORN never says anything about John G. Lake. I wonder why? It is now available on CD. 12 hours of nothing but healing and miracles. I listen to it as much as I can. Listen to it and you will
know where Curry Blake got most of His teaching from. Blake is a Fake!
Steve
Have you read the bible 12 hours straight thereafter reading it as much as your can?
Good day all. I think there is no reason in professing Christians to hold improper arguments. If something is true to you believe it and stop pointing fingers.
We are all given a change to have and live our choices. That is one of the wonderful power God have given to us. We must live by the standards of the Word, one of which is to take the pointing of fingers from amongst ourselves and stop speaking vanity(Isa 58:9).
Just to clear something, i have listened to Curry Blake’s teaching and i have read TL Osborn’s Healing the sick. The two people come from different positions and certain things they approach differently.
Some people may say they contradict each other but to be honest i like their diversity. I can assure you, we all see what we want to see. I have heard some people using certain scripture verses and saying they contradict themselves and it sure seems like that to them.
Take a decision, believe what you want and stick to it. The only danger is that it will determine our future, even eternal one.
Moabi Sir
The Bible tells you to HOLD FAST TO SOUND DOCTRINE and show others if they are in the wrong.
Please read these articles;
http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/09/11/do-not-tolerate-wicked-people/
http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/09/11/mark-them-which-cause-division/
http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/09/11/as-christians-we-must-judge-righteously/
http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/12/08/can-satan-heal/
http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/01/10/do-angels-visit-us-today/
http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/01/17/are-prophets-for-today-or-has-prophecy-ceased/
http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/01/17/the-bible-says-i-said-you-are-gods-but-is-this-entirely-true/
Sir, you need to wake up and smell the coffee. What is an improper discussion? We are supposed to EXPOSE the deeds of darkness and false teaching. Why do you consider that improper?