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What does an Encounter mean or is that a G12?

Thoughts:  What does an Encounter mean or is that a G12?

There seems to be a few Word of Faith churches in South Africa who speak of encounters.  Multiple ones might I add.  Now…this encounter terminology is Occult terminology.  Here is a Church in Port Elizabeth (Word of Faith Christian Centre – Jimmy and Mariana Crompton) who is attracting people to their church via Spiritualism, they call it the G12 (what ever that means…quite frankly it does not matter, they could have called it ‘Bullet Point •’ when one views a bullet point in HTML Code it shows up as the following:  • 

When you enter a trance like state either after intense ‘praise and worship’ or ‘getting people to open themselves up and express their emotions’ or via contemplation, mantras or clearing ones mind, yoga, breathing, etc. You encounter ‘yourself’.

Most people do not know that what they are actually encountering are demonic spirits who give you extreme peace and a joy unlike anything ever experienced. Now you ask, if I am encountering my inner self how on earth can I be encountering demonic spirits? Well, when you encounter yourself, you become balanced or centered within creation.  You feel one with creation.  God is creation and God is in creation. You enter into a godlike state of consciousness. Yourself = The god in you. Yourself = God.

This is the LIE you will experience once you reach this ‘SECRET’ place. Satan appears as an Angel of Light. What you think is your inner light is not you, but Satan.

Churches in South Africa have introduced training, programmes, studies, camps, weekend get aways and cell groups to introduce people to a ‘journey’ that will ‘change their lives’. This journey will expose people to the False Christ disguised as Jesus Christ. This journey will destroy your soul…but:

I pray that people who have been introduced to this New Age Spiritualism repent of their sin, ask Jesus Christ the Son of God to come into their lives by believing the True gospel of Jesus Christ. That Jesus died on a cross for our sins that we might be saved, and He rose again and is seated at the right hand of The Father. Jesus Christ is coming back soon and will judge everyone. No one is excluded. And if you choose wickedness over Jesus Christ you will face the consequences of YOUR choice.

Realise this:  Hell was created FOR Satan. At the end, all who were lead astray by Satan will burn with Him in an everlasting fire. Satan and his minions do not get to torture you, he will burn WITH you.

God loves all those who believe His Word and accept His Son Jesus Christ and genuinely REPENT OF THEIR SIN, whereby the Holy Spirit comes to abide in you.   But God WILL show wrath to ALL those who choose evil instead.

You can’t change the truth.

In John 14:6 Jesus said,

I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”  

And this is not The Christ that the world is following in droves.  Only through Jesus Christ the Son of God can you have a personal relationship with The Father! 

If God says He will punish those who willingly go against Him, then this is what He will do. Your beliefs will never change what will happen in the future. So thinking that God would never punish you because God is Love, is like burying your head in the sand.  Completely useless!

Below I have listed all churches affiliated to Word of Faith Christian Centre: [1]

  • Word of Faith Christian Centre
  • Central Fellowship
  • Cornerstone Worship Centre
  • Light on a Hill Christian Fellowship
  • Zwide Christian Centre
  • Shekinah Ministries
  • Elohim Christian Centre
  • The Branch Family Church
  • Word of Faith Uitenhage
  • New Dawn Move of Christ Foundation Ministries

Some names of people involved with this church:  [2]

They run an Education department as well:  [2]

  • Baby Heaven
  • Noah’s Ark Pre-Primary School
  • Willow Academy Junior and Senior School.

   

Resources:
[1] http://www.wordoffaith.org.za/index.php?option=com_contact&view=category&catid=9&Itemid=27
[2] http://www.wordoffaith.org.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10&Itemid=49
Main website: http://www.wordoffaith.org.za
pixel What does an Encounter mean or is that a G12?

29 comments to What does an Encounter mean or is that a G12?

  • Discerning The World

    Rose

    Wow!! Would you be able to email me some more info on this please (if possible). Email address in the ‘About this Blog’ page at the top right of the blog.

    “connected to the Jesuits G12 organisation” again…WOW!!

  • Rose Layard

    DELETED: Promoting a health and wealth business under the disguise of a ministry.

  • Mmmm

    Some of your claims are simply not true. I used to be a member of Word of Fath and encounter simply refers to encountering God i.e. being in a really anointed meeting at a camp in which you worship God and people get saved/delivered etc.

  • Mmmm

    May I add Word of Faith does NOT ever refer to you encounter ‘yourself’ and they are not for yoga!
    The journey just simply refers to a bible course when you join the church (pre-encounter), going on a camp (encounter), a course after the camp (post-encounter) then going on 3 course where you learn how to be a cell leader.
    They are not for New Age stuff. They preach that you must ask Jesus Christ the Son of God to come into your life by believing the True gospel of Jesus Christ. That Jesus died on a cross for our sins that we might be saved, and He rose again and is seated at the right hand of The Father. That Jesus Christ is coming back soon and will judge everyone. They know that Hell was created FOR Satan. And that at the end, all who were lead astray by Satan will burn with Him in an everlasting fire etc.
    They believe that God loves all those who believe His Word and accept His Son Jesus Christ and genuinely REPENT OF THEIR SIN, whereby the Holy Spirit comes to abide in you and God WILL show wrath to ALL those who choose evil instead.
    They believe only through Jesus Christ the Son of God can you have a personal relationship with The Father!
    They know that if God says He will punish those who willingly go against Him, then this is what He will do and that your beliefs will never change what will happen in the future and that thinking that God would never punish you because God is Love, is like burying your head in the sand. Completely useless! as you have said claiming they don’t believe that.
    Most of what you say is true doctine, but claiming that Word of Faith church doesn’t believe this is simply not true! Please talk to the pastor of the church and hear for yourself if you don’t believe me.

  • Discerning The World

    Mmmmm

    You say you used to be a member of Word of Faith. What do you believe in now?

  • Discerning The World

    Mmmmm

    >>> Please talk to the pastor of the church and hear for yourself if you don’t believe me.

    Better suggestion, please open your bible and study it to find out the truth.

  • …who is attracting people to their church via Spiritualism, they call it the G12 (what ever that means…quite frankly it does not matter…

    G12 is a method by which cell groups are run and is based on the idea that Jesus had 12 discipels and gave them the commision to go and make disciples as He taught them.

    If you google “G12 cell groups” you will find a number of sites explaining the G12 Vision. This is from Wikipedia:

    G12 philosophy

    The idea of the G12 is to reach out and disciple every member and to hold every member accountable to Christ’s teachings. The main leader would disciple 12 people, they would instate Christian values, teachings, prayer and ministry on a weekly basis until their disciples were ready to lead their own groups. Each disciple would find 12 new disciples and repeat the same process until there were 144. In both theory and example this process leads the church to grow exponentially, without losing accountability of Christian values due to the eventual size of the church.

    It is based on the methodology used by Jesus to begin his ministry. Following his 40 day temptation in the desert, the first act of Jesus in his ministry was to form a group of 12 disciples (Mark 3:14). Additionally, in the book of Acts the first action taken by the 11 remaining disciples (considering Judas Iscariot’s betrayal) was to re-establish a group of 12. Seeing fit not to leave it at 11, or allow 13, but rather to cast lots, which fell on Matthias, to fulfill the 12 (Acts 1:26). It was only after they re-established the group/government of 12 for the church that the day of Pentecost came (the moment when the disciples were all filled with the Holy Spirit)

    This number 12 is considered significant as representing Government.

    Encounters

    These are weekend retreats, usually set away from the city in a conference centre.[4] Encounters generally last three days where there is basic Christian teaching on holiness, prayer, fellowship with God, forgiving, tithing, speaking life, walking in the Spirit, demonic liberation (which is also called casting out the enemy or deliverance), healing the sick, winning souls for Christ, having patience and bearing fruit. One of the main points for these “encounters” is for the believer to have a genuine repentance and revelation of what the cross is all about. Also in these encounters there is extensive prayer and use of common symbolic acts to define the end of the old and beginning of the new.

  • Discerning The World

    Oh man, I typed a whole nice comment here and then my laptop crashed *sniffs*

    Anyhow basically what I was saying….This is Law and Jewish Mysticism (Kabbalah) or Numerology all this falls into the category of Occulticism/Esotericism which has been combined with Christianity.

    In this case we can’t take Wikipedia’s word on what this ‘encounter’ stuff means. You need to do more research. Teaching people half truth and half error equates to error.

    They say that “Also in these encounters there is extensive prayer and use of common symbolic acts to define the end of the old and beginning of the new.”

    What common symbolic act(s) are they talking about here? Baptism only or? When the thief hung on the cross next to Jesus Christ all he did was believe that Jesus was the Son of God and genuinely repent of his sin. The guy didn’t even get to be baptised let alone get to do anything symbolic, ritualistic etc.

    Luke 23:35-43
    35 And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, “He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen One.”
    36 The soldiers also mocked Him, coming up to Him, offering Him sour wine,
    37 and saying, “If You are the King of the Jews, save Yourself!”
    38 Now there was also an inscription above Him, “THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.”
    39 One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying, “Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!”
    40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?
    41 “And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.”
    42 And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!”
    43 And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”

    This for me is one of the most wonderful passages. An evil man, a sinner, a man who did absolutely nothing worldly to deserve salvation, deserve to be saved. Born into a sinful world, remained sinful UNTIL that moment of being born again and Jesus said, ‘TODAY you shall be with me in Paradise”. This thief did not one single good work, no love came from this man, until He loved Jesus Christ the Son of God and repented of his wickedness. The other man…well…where did he go after he died? To Paradise? Yes or No?

    The thief/murderer a man who must have done something very bad to land up being crucified said: “But the other answered, and rebuking him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?” In other words, we all REMAIN in SIN until such time as we GENUINEY REPENT and all of mankind is SENTENCED TO CONDEMNATION, to PERSISH. Yes God sent His SON Jesus Christ to save the world because He loves us – BUT that does NOT give an automatic get out of jail free card. Jesus died for us, yet practically the entire earth HATES him. They say the love Christ and God is love, but they can’t wait to hurl abide at Him like the other man on the cross did to Jesus Christ. It works both ways. God is a God of Love to those who love Him and stand up for the Truth and He is a God of Wrath to those who hate Him and He will CONDEM ALL who choose to follow other gods and other so called truths over His commandments, over His Word, over His CLEAR instructions. God does everything for HIS Glory. He will NEVER tolerate His creation disobeying Him. I mean really…who do we think we are? God wiped out the earth once because they were so sinful He could NOT TOLERATE it but saved and saved Noah some others because they were love God. What makes anything one God has changed His attitude since. Yes God sent a sign that he would not do that again, until the END came. So yes, there is an end no matter which way you look at it. Notice that God could only find Noah and a handful of others out of probably millions of people who obeyed Him. It’s the same today. A handful of genuine born again Christians stuck in world of false teaching telling everyone that there will be no End. The delusion is strong I tell you.

    So as we can see all these rituals/symbolic acts and camping trips is all a load of nonsense and nothing but taking the grace of God and turning it into law with a sprinkling of occult teaching to make it worse.

    Also all this ” teaching on holiness, prayer, fellowship with God, forgiving, tithing, speaking life, walking in the Spirit, demonic liberation (which is also called casting out the enemy or deliverance), healing the sick, winning souls for Christ, having patience and bearing fruit.” is all based on Metaphysical cult teaching. Word of Faith – you have the power in your words to make things happen. One once again we land up with New Age Emergent teaching. Word of Faith / New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) and Emergent is all intertwined. Same teaching – different terminology.

    It’s like a big spider web. One World Religion (Satan) in the middle and all religions/faiths/beliefs branching off but at the same time coming back to the main idea the beginning (Genesis). We can take control of earth, make it our domain and rule over it as gods just as Satan wanted to do: take God’s place and rule over His creation.

  • Kx Esporlas

    Just to add from what Eugene Roberts quoted from Wikipedia – an Encounter is a 3 day retreat during which time God imparts life to each person who participates. It is no doubt a life changing. This is not something that man just came up with – it is biblical. The children of Israel had an Encounter. The people of Israel were oppressed in egypt and God has to raise up a deliverer named Moses and he went before the Pharaoh with a request from God – “The God of Hebrews has met with us. Now let us take a three day journey into the desert to offer sacrifices to the Lord our God.” Paul too had an encounter before he became tne greatest men in Christianity.

    I am one of those people who got totally changed from the inside out through an encounter. From being an atheist, i am now a youth leader. Praise God :)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    KX EsporlaI

    >> an Encounter is a 3 day retreat during which time God imparts life to each person who participates. It is no doubt a life changing. This is not something that man just came up with – it is biblical. The children of Israel had an Encounter. The people of Israel were oppressed in egypt and God has to raise up a deliverer named Moses and he went before the Pharaoh with a request from God – “The God of Hebrews has met with us

    Actually it’s totally UNBIBLICAL- we as Christians do not base how we find God on how the Israeli’s did it in the OLD TESTAMENT (BEFORE JESUS CHRIST CAME). In the NEW TESTAMENT Jesus Christ gave us the Holy Spirit and it does not involve an ENCOUNTER of any sort to receive Him.

    This encounter is New Age Occult and who ever goes on these retreats are actually encountering the Kundalini false Holy Spirit that MIMICS the Biblical Holy Spirit.

  • Marianne Lotter

    You make me laugh! Goodness me …. you are trying to prove a point and you don’t even have the point! I once challenged someone like you to attend our church 10 times and then say what you say …. and I challenged you to attend Word of Faith Christian Centre in Port Elizabeth 10 times by then you could try and make your point again. As for Encounters … you clearly have NO IDEA what it’s about and assumptions don’t work well. So, my friend, I suggest you come and visit our church, attend an Encounter or two, see and experience for yourself what is going on. And as far as your information goes – maybe you should update on your facts … hahaha! You are behind with some of your gossip information …. visit our website and facebook pages for more relevant information – also visit our Arise Girlfriends facebook page … we also have Project Hope, Faith Fellowship.. so, go for it!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Marianne

    Oh you make me laugh too, imagine that.

    No where in the bible do I read about this thing called an ‘Encounter’ so would you mind explaining to us where in scripture you get this idea from? and what it’s all about? thanks!

  • Redeemed

    Oh my! Where does one start?
    How about this? http://lyndiemccauley.com/History/tabid/775/Default.aspx
    And this? http://rhemafamilychurches.co.za/?page_id=59
    And this? http://sftn.org/conference/speakers/

    Most of the information that Marianne recommended requires one to belong to Facebook. But the above links are quite enough to reveal the true nature of these “ministries”. They are corrupt to the core. Nothing new here. Just more of the same false Rhema-based “seed faith”, “prophetic”, “fire power” emotionally charged unbiblical teaching that appeals to the flesh and is devoid of the Holy Spirit. Women pastors as is so prevalent in these types of organizations.

  • Thomas

    Hello everyone. I see that the main topic is to discuss whether not not these encounter retreats are of God or not. I see opposing view so I wonder, who is right and who is wrong? Who is discerning properly? Well, how do we discern? We discern with both the Scriptures and the Spirit of God. If we discern with only the scriptures but ignore the Spirit then how do we know that we are properly understanding and applying the scriptures? The Pharisees made the mistake of Discerning only by the letter of the law but not the Spirit of the law and Jsus rebuked them. On the other hand if we discern only by the Spirit and ignore the scriptures, how do we know that we are not listening to a wrong spirit unless we compare it to the Word of God.

    It seems obvious to me that the author if this article is discerning only by the letter. I know you (author) won’t like this comment but I have discerned you through your words and I can clearly see that something is not right in your judgements. And I consider that you will either delete my comment or be insulted by what I said and immediately lash out against it. But don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that your are a bad person, but rather you are off in your judgements regarding this topic.

    I am a missionary and traveling minister here in the Philippines. The home church that I attend is G-12. I attend the church but I do not take place in the G-12 system. The reason is because I find that G-12 takes good biblical principles such as evangelism, discipleship, cell groups (or small Christian gatherings) to unbiblical extremes that can be unhealthy, yet on the other hand the leaders of the church, who I know personally and spend time with casually are highly anointed, and possess a great character. Their weakness is not recognizing and acknowledging the problems in the system that they are applying.

    One thing that must be realized is that G-12 is not a religion but a strategy and this strategy is applied to greatly varying degrees throughout the churches and often subject to being changed based upon the doctrinal views of the church. I have seen and heard of some Churches doing things in their G-12 practice that other G-12 churches would disagree with. I do not deny that there are very likely churches out there that are practicing encounters in an unbiblical way. However I have witnessed g-12 churches holding a retreat called by the name “encounter” but practiced in a Biblical way. I know because I have witnessed it and have had the privilege of being a guest speaker during several of them.

    From what I have witnessed, it is basically an event where people are ministered to for several days regarding topics based upon Scripture. I know because I have all of the PowerPoint notes of each topic saved on my computer. They talk about guarding our mouth and thereby watching how we speak. Sexual purity. It discusses guarding our ears by being cautious of what we listen to. It discusses what Christ accomplished on the cross and how through it was are Forgiven. Basically each of these topics are communicated in a teaching/ preaching type way in the same way that a pastor ministers to his congregation on Sunday. Oftentimes at the end of the session there will be a time of ministry where the individual can ask God to help them apply what they have just learned and may receive prayer from the staff.

    If somone was to say that a person can only experience God through an encounter retreat then I would sharply oppose them, but a person can draw near to God during that time. It is also possible that someone can attend such an event and not encounter God. I personaly attended one and i did not encounter God any greater than i would if i prayed to Him in my bedroom. If somone was to say that every Christian must attend an encounter retreat, then again I would sharply oppose that, but I have no problem with a person who chooses to attend one, after seing people’s life’s greatly encouraged by them.

    Yes the Bible does not say that we should hold 3 day retreats to seek God through the scriptures and prayer, but just because it does not say it does not mean that it is wrong to practice it. Just as many churches often structure their services by playing 2 fast praise songs and 3 slow worship songs followed by one hour of preaching. The Bible does not say that is how our services need to be run, but there is nothing wrong with practicing that. The problem comes when we say that it is the ONLY way of running a service and there is no other proper method.

    As a final note. I do acknowledge that some churches may be improperly Imposing and operating these encounter retreats and be practicing some unbiblical things but that does not mean that all of them are such.

    God bless.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Thomas

    I discern that you are deceived. It’s amazing how you provide absolutely no scripture to back up your comment even though you speak about the Word. Yes, satan knows the bible too, but he twists it, just like you are doing.

  • Redeemed

    Thomas, did you check out the links I gave? Apparently not.

    I agree with Deborah that you are deceived. “Anointed” people (as you describe the leaders of the G-12 church you attend) will not endorse or participate in these activities. And although you say you do not participate in the events they promote, you have fellowship with those leaders. Do you know what the Bible says about that? Try “double-minded” for starters. See what the Bible says about that condition.

    I hope you learn how to properly discern. You make the statement that we can’t use the Bible alone without the Holy Spirit. Hello! The Holy Spirit wrote the Bible! There is a counterfeit “holy spirit” that these people look to and are inspired by. Any discerning person would want no part of it and would flee in the other direction.

  • Bosch

    Hi im part of what you called “occult” g12. How can you tell g12 is an occult? I can shout at the top of my lungs how blessed and thankful I am that God put me on a g12 church. Most churches here in the Philippines are becoming “exclusive” if the church has a majority rich members then they will set up events and stuffs that the poor will not relate to. But in our church it is inclusive everyone is allowed and they will feel that we are a family and we even shake hands with the first timers. We set up events and stuffs that every hearts will be touch by Jesus. Our church has three principles: First our purpose to love God and to love people (Luke 10:27); Second our vision to win souls and make disciples(Matthew 28:16-20); and lastly our goal to make every believer a leader (Proverbs 27:17). And I can find nothing wrong with this. You say that G12 is a strategy or some culture training because of the encounters. I tell you PEPSOL (Pre-Enc. Enc. Post-Enc. School of Leaders) will really help you to grow as a chistian. You will accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, will learn how to overcome trials and temptations, learn how to win over your life, the compassion for the lost,how to be used by God not just in music ministry/etc. but as leader/discipler. Christians are never meant to be just hearers and a disciple or part of the “sitting ministry”. We must know that each of us are entrusted with the great commission TO WIN SOULS AND MAKE DISCIPLES a truly saved person will also save others. But it is your choice but never expect a blessing of a leader. “…For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you” (Luke 6:28). But for me I will still continue to serve God do my purpose, vision and goal and I can see myself as a leader of leaders in the near future.

    AND LASTLY BASED ON WHAT I’VE SEEN ON THE COMMENTS, YOU ARE AN ISSUE-CENTERED! A CHURCH OR A CHRISTIAN THAT IS AN ISSUE-CENTERED IS NOT A CHRIST-CENTERED OR NOT EVEN A CHRISTIAN! DO YOU KNOW WHY THERE IS SO MANY DIVISIONS OF CHRISTIANITY NOWADAYS BECAUSE THEY ARE SO ISSUE-CENTERED THEY ARE BLINDED WITH THEIR PRIDE AND JUDGMENTS. MANY CHURCHES HAVE SPIRIT OF COMPETENCE AMONG OTHER CHURCHES OR OTHER CHRISTIANS. YOUR MINISTRY WILL NOT GROW IF THAT’S WHAT YOUR DOING SURELY YOUR MINISTRY WILL NOT GROW. REMEMBER SATAN COULD NOT CRUSH SATAN AND GOD COULD NOT CRUSH HIMSELF. BUT WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOW YOUR CRUSHING EACH OTHERS! ARE WE NOT HAVE THE SAME GOD? SAME LORD THAT WE SERVE? SAME NAME THAT WE CONFESS? THAT IS JESUS CHRIST.

  • Baldwin

    [delete]

  • pondong

    you mistook your personal satisfaction as touch of God.G12 is a cult and a pyramid scheme. You need not feel anything to rest assure that God is in you.Satan can trick you? TRUST and BELIEVE in Jesus is ALL he ask from you. All those you claimed that happened to you while with G12 is a satans tricks. The man on the right of Jesus cross never had any church, encounters, G12 etc. yet he acknowledged Jesus as sin less… just like than his wihtn him in paradise.

    Bosch wrote:

    Hi im part of what you called “occult” g12. How can you tell g12 is an occult? I can shout at the top of my lungs how blessed and thankful I am that God put me on a g12 church. Most churches here in the Philippines are becoming “exclusive” if the church has a majority rich members then they will set up events and stuffs that the poor will not relate to. But in our church it is inclusive everyone is allowed and they will feel that we are a family and we even shake hands with the first timers. We set up events and stuffs that every hearts will be touch by Jesus. Our church has three principles: First our purpose to love God and to love people (Luke 10:27); Second our vision to win souls and make disciples(Matthew 28:16-20); and lastly our goal to make every believer a leader (Proverbs 27:17). And I can find nothing wrong with this. You say that G12 is a strategy or some culture training because of the encounters. I tell you PEPSOL (Pre-Enc. Enc. Post-Enc. School of Leaders) will really help you to grow as a chistian. You will accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, will learn how to overcome trials and temptations, learn how to win over your life, the compassion for the lost,how to be used by God not just in music ministry/etc. but as leader/discipler. Christians are never meant to be just hearers and a disciple or part of the “sitting ministry”. We must know that each of us are entrusted with the great commission TO WIN SOULS AND MAKE DISCIPLES a truly saved person will also save others. But it is your choice but never expect a blessing of a leader. “…For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you” (Luke 6:28). But for me I will still continue to serve God do my purpose, vision and goal and I can see myself as a leader of leaders in the near future.

    AND LASTLY BASED ON WHAT I’VE SEEN ON THE COMMENTS, YOU ARE AN ISSUE-CENTERED! A CHURCH OR A CHRISTIAN THAT IS AN ISSUE-CENTERED IS NOT A CHRIST-CENTERED OR NOT EVEN A CHRISTIAN! DO YOU KNOW WHY THERE IS SO MANY DIVISIONS OF CHRISTIANITY NOWADAYS BECAUSE THEY ARE SO ISSUE-CENTERED THEY ARE BLINDED WITH THEIR PRIDE AND JUDGMENTS. MANY CHURCHES HAVE SPIRIT OF COMPETENCE AMONG OTHER CHURCHES OR OTHER CHRISTIANS. YOUR MINISTRY WILL NOT GROW IF THAT’S WHAT YOUR DOING SURELY YOUR MINISTRY WILL NOT GROW. REMEMBER SATAN COULD NOT CRUSH SATAN AND GOD COULD NOT CRUSH HIMSELF. BUT WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOW YOUR CRUSHING EACH OTHERS! ARE WE NOT HAVE THE SAME GOD? SAME LORD THAT WE SERVE? SAME NAME THAT WE CONFESS? THAT IS JESUS CHRIST.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Bosch

    This is probaly an old comment but never the less… you said:

    “I tell you PEPSOL (Pre-Enc. Enc. Post-Enc. School of Leaders) will really help you to grow as a chistian. You will accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, will learn how to overcome trials and temptations, learn how to win over your life, the compassion for the lost,how to be used by God not just in music ministry/etc. but as leader/discipler……But for me I will still continue to serve God do my purpose, vision and goal and I can see myself as a leader of leaders in the near future.”

    You say PEPSOL helps you grow as a Christian. Actually it’s the Holy Spirit that does that work in you, not G12 and their psycho babble courses and instructions. Secondly and most important Jesus did not come to make leaders He came to save the lost.

  • Dania Vanessa

    Christians are called, not to judge, persecute, condemn, hate, and question other people. Especially your fellow believer. :)
    1 John 3:10
    By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

    Love your fellow believers. We are serving the same God. :) Love unconditionally, just like what Christ did. :)) Respect one other, And not be a judge of the other. :)) The Church (where you are right now) will just help you to grow. :)) But the most important thing is, your PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with the Lord (if you have). :)) ‘Wag nating ipahiya si Lord. :)) Mga Kristiyano pa man din. :))

    John 15:12
    “This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dania

    Well you are wrong on many instances. You sound like the emergent church, love everything even if it’s going to send you straight to hell.

    1) As Christians We Must Judge Righteously

    As Christians we do not judge a person’s life, i.e., sin, because we are all sinners (Matt 7:1)., we judge righteously according to the Word of God. The Bible commands us to judge fellow Christians teachings and their fruit. Those in the church we are to judge according to the Word of God. Those outside of the church we show them the error of their ways, preach the gospel to them and then leave them in God’s hands. We are also commanded to judge/test their teachings/doctrine to make sure it is correct and that it ties up with scripture.

    There are many verses in the bible where we are told to JUDGE/TEST:

    1 Thessalonians 5:21 (Amplified Bible)

    21But test and prove all things [until you can recognize] what is good; [to that] hold fast.

    ———–

    Matthew 7:15-20 (Amplified Bible)

    15Beware of false prophets, who come to you dressed as sheep, but inside they are devouring wolves.

    16You will fully recognize them by their fruits. Do people pick grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?

    17Even so, every healthy (sound) tree bears good fruit [worthy of admiration], but the sickly (decaying, worthless) tree bears bad (worthless) fruit.
    18A good (healthy) tree cannot bear bad (worthless) fruit, nor can a bad (diseased) tree bear [excellent fruit [worthy of admiration].

    19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire.

    20Therefore, you will fully know them by their fruits.

    ———–

    1 Corinthians 5:12-13 (Amplified Bible)

    12What [business] of mine is it and what right have I to judge outsiders? Is it not those inside [the church] upon whom you are to pass disciplinary judgment [passing censuring sentence on them as the facts require]?

    13God alone sits in judgment on those who are outside. Drive out that wicked one from among you [expel him from your church].

    ———–

    1 Corinthians 14:29 (Amplified Bible)

    29 So let two or three prophets speak [those inspired to preach or teach], while the rest pay attention and weigh and discern what is said.

    ———–

    John 7:24 (Amplified Bible)

    24Be honest in your judgment and do not decide at a glance (superficially and by appearances); but judge fairly and righteously.

    ———–

    Titus 1:9-16 (Amplified Bible)

    9He must hold fast to the sure and trustworthy Word of God as he was taught it, so that he may be able both to give stimulating instruction and encouragement in sound (wholesome) doctrine and to refute and convict those who contradict and oppose it [showing the wayward their error].

    10For there are many disorderly and unruly men who are idle (vain, empty) and misleading talkers and self-deceivers and deceivers of others. [This is true] especially of those of the circumcision party [who have come over from Judaism].

    11Their mouths must be stopped, for they are mentally distressing and subverting whole families by teaching what they ought not to teach, for the purpose of getting base advantage and disreputable gain.

    12One of their [very] number, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are always liars, hurtful beasts, idle and lazy gluttons.

    13And this account of them is [really] true. Because it is [true], rebuke them sharply [deal sternly, even severely with them], so that they may be sound in the faith and free from error,

    14[And may show their soundness by] ceasing to give attention to Jewish myths and fables or to rules [laid down] by [mere] men who reject and turn their backs on the Truth.

    15To the pure [in heart and conscience] all things are pure, but to the defiled and corrupt and unbelieving nothing is pure; their very minds and consciences are defiled and polluted.

    16They profess to know God [to recognize, perceive, and be acquainted with Him], but deny and disown and renounce Him by what they do; they are detestable and loathsome, unbelieving and disobedient and disloyal and rebellious, and [they are] unfit and worthless for good work (deed or enterprise) of any kind.

    ———–

    1 John 4 (Amplified Bible)

    1BELOVED, DO not put faith in every spirit, but prove (test) the spirits to discover whether they proceed from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

    *********************

    2) Mark Them Which Cause Division

    Romans 16:17-18 (KJV)

    17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

    *********************

    3) To Christians facing hardships, told not to question these wicked people; don’t lose heart. Jesus knows what we are going through – keep standing strong.

    The below scripture:

    1. Clearly tells us we are not to tolerate wicked men
    2. Clearly tells us we are to TEST (1 John 4:1-6)
    3. Clearly tells us we are to CRITICALLY APPRAISE
    4. Jesus warns us about these so called ‘apostles’ who are nothing but liars and impostors.
    5. We are told to MARK those who cause division (Romans 16:17-18)

    Revelation 2:2-3 (Amplified Bible)

    2I know your industry and activities, laborious toil and trouble, and your patient endurance, and how you cannot tolerate wicked [men] and have tested and critically appraised those who call [themselves] apostles (special messengers of Christ) and yet are not, and have found them to be impostors and liars.

    3I know you are enduring patiently and are bearing up for My name’s sake, and you have not fainted or become exhausted or grown weary.

    *********************

  • Dania wrote,

    Christians are called, not to judge, persecute, condemn, hate, and question other people. Especially your fellow believer. :)
    1 John 3:10
    By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

    If you do not warn your brothers or sisters when they go astray, you do not love them. IF you do not command them to stop believing their heresies, YOU DO NOT LOVE THEM. YOU HATE THEM.

    Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope; Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord. As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, (1 Ti 1:1-3)

    The word “paraggellō” (charge) means to command someone very sternly.

    Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. (James 5:20)

    I therefore sternly command you to sternly command those who have gone astray to return to God in stead of believing a host of false prophets and teachers.

  • Dania Vanessa

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Dania

    Well you are wrong on many instances. You sound like the emergent church, love everything even if it’s going to send you straight to hell.

    1) As Christians We Must Judge Righteously

    As Christians we do not judge a person’s life, i.e., sin, because we are all sinners (Matt 7:1)., we judge righteously according to the Word of God. The Bible commands us to judge fellow Christians teachings and their fruit. Those in the church we are to judge according to the Word of God. Those outside of the church we show them the error of their ways, preach the gospel to them and then leave them in God’s hands. We are also commanded to judge/test their teachings/doctrine to make sure it is correct and that it ties up with scripture.

    There are many verses in the bible where we are told to JUDGE/TEST:

    1 Thessalonians 5:21 (Amplified Bible)

    21But test and prove all things [until you can recognize] what is good; [to that] hold fast.

    ———–

    Matthew 7:15-20 (Amplified Bible)

    15Beware of false prophets, who come to you dressed as sheep, but inside they are devouring wolves.

    16You will fully recognize them by their fruits. Do people pick grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?

    17Even so, every healthy (sound) tree bears good fruit [worthy of admiration], but the sickly (decaying, worthless) tree bears bad (worthless) fruit.
    18A good (healthy) tree cannot bear bad (worthless) fruit, nor can a bad (diseased) tree bear [excellent fruit [worthy of admiration].

    19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire.

    20Therefore, you will fully know them by their fruits.

    ———–

    1 Corinthians 5:12-13 (Amplified Bible)

    12What [business] of mine is it and what right have I to judge outsiders? Is it not those inside [the church] upon whom you are to pass disciplinary judgment [passing censuring sentence on them as the facts require]?

    13God alone sits in judgment on those who are outside. Drive out that wicked one from among you [expel him from your church].

    ———–

    1 Corinthians 14:29 (Amplified Bible)

    29 So let two or three prophets speak [those inspired to preach or teach], while the rest pay attention and weigh and discern what is said.

    ———–

    John 7:24 (Amplified Bible)

    24Be honest in your judgment and do not decide at a glance (superficially and by appearances); but judge fairly and righteously.

    ———–

    Titus 1:9-16 (Amplified Bible)

    9He must hold fast to the sure and trustworthy Word of God as he was taught it, so that he may be able both to give stimulating instruction and encouragement in sound (wholesome) doctrine and to refute and convict those who contradict and oppose it [showing the wayward their error].

    10For there are many disorderly and unruly men who are idle (vain, empty) and misleading talkers and self-deceivers and deceivers of others. [This is true] especially of those of the circumcision party [who have come over from Judaism].

    11Their mouths must be stopped, for they are mentally distressing and subverting whole families by teaching what they ought not to teach, for the purpose of getting base advantage and disreputable gain.

    12One of their [very] number, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are always liars, hurtful beasts, idle and lazy gluttons.

    13And this account of them is [really] true. Because it is [true], rebuke them sharply [deal sternly, even severely with them], so that they may be sound in the faith and free from error,

    14[And may show their soundness by] ceasing to give attention to Jewish myths and fables or to rules [laid down] by [mere] men who reject and turn their backs on the Truth.

    15To the pure [in heart and conscience] all things are pure, but to the defiled and corrupt and unbelieving nothing is pure; their very minds and consciences are defiled and polluted.

    16They profess to know God [to recognize, perceive, and be acquainted with Him], but deny and disown and renounce Him by what they do; they are detestable and loathsome, unbelieving and disobedient and disloyal and rebellious, and [they are] unfit and worthless for good work (deed or enterprise) of any kind.

    ———–

    1 John 4 (Amplified Bible)

    1BELOVED, DO not put faith in every spirit, but prove (test) the spirits to discover whether they proceed from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

    *********************

    2) Mark Them Which Cause Division

    Romans 16:17-18 (KJV)

    17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

    *********************

    3) To Christians facing hardships, told not to question these wicked people; don’t lose heart. Jesus knows what we are going through – keep standing strong.

    The below scripture:

    1. Clearly tells us we are not to tolerate wicked men
    2. Clearly tells us we are to TEST (1 John 4:1-6)
    3. Clearly tells us we are to CRITICALLY APPRAISE
    4. Jesus warns us about these so called ‘apostles’ who are nothing but liars and impostors.
    5. We are told to MARK those who cause division (Romans 16:17-18)

    Revelation 2:2-3 (Amplified Bible)

    2I know your industry and activities, laborious toil and trouble, and your patient endurance, and how you cannot tolerate wicked [men] and have tested and critically appraised those who call [themselves] apostles (special messengers of Christ) and yet are not, and have found them to be impostors and liars.

    3I know you are enduring patiently and are bearing up for My name’s sake, and you have not fainted or become exhausted or grown weary.

    *********************

    Amen to that! :)

  • Dania Vanessa

    Thomas Lessing (Watch and Pray / Waak en Bid) wrote:

    Dania wrote,

    Christians are called, not to judge, persecute, condemn, hate, and question other people. Especially your fellow believer. :)
    1 John 3:10
    By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

    If you do not warn your brothers or sisters when they go astray, you do not love them. IF you do not command them to stop believing their heresies, YOU DO NOT LOVE THEM. YOU HATE THEM.

    Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope; Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord. As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, (1 Ti 1:1-3)

    The word “paraggellō” (charge) means to command someone very sternly.

    Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. (James 5:20)

    I therefore sternly command you to sternly command those who have gone astray to return to God in stead of believing a host of false prophets and teachers.

    Amen to that also! :D :)

  • Dania Vanessa

    nakakatuwa! ang dami kong info na nakukuha! hahaha :D thankyow! :D

  • Dania wrote

    nakakatuwa! ang dami kong info na nakukuha! hahaha :D thankyow! :D

    Are you speaking in tongues or are you trying to be funny?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    >> nakakatuwa! ang dami kong info na nakukuha! hahaha :D thankyow! :D

    Dania

    Can I ask that you please speak English, I don’t know what you have written there.

    Thank you

  • Dania Vanessa

    [deleted]

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