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Joyce Meyer is a Little God With a Big Christ Consciousness

7DTW AuthorIcon75 Joyce Meyer is a Little God With a Big Christ Consciousness

Joyce Meyer little God with Big Christ consciousness 300x150 Joyce Meyer is a Little God With a Big Christ ConsciousnessJoyce Meyer is admired by so many people, especially women, it’s actually quite ridiculous.  I think it’s mainly because she speaks like a psychologist. So watching her on TV or reading her books is like lying on that big leather sofa in a psychologists office and you get to speak you heart out all they while they tell you how to manage your life.  I also think that many women wish they could be like her.

Now lets get down to the nitty gritty.  Have you noticed how quickly Joyce Meyer speaks.  She is a bullet train.  You can’t keep up with what she is actually saying!  She mis-quotes scripture just as fast.  This is such a brilliant tactic.  She does not give you any time to take in what she is ACTUALLY saying.  Of course I can’t apply this to her books, because everyone reads at a different pace.  But she still mis-quotes scripture, and she knows no one will actually check to see if what she is quoting really lines up to the truth.  Sneaky Sneaky.

Why do false teachers always come up with such clever means of deceiving people.  Because Satan is actually very clever and knows exactly how to stop you from thinking for yourself and will always prevent you from going to the Bible to see if what he says is actually so.  Which of course it never ever will be true, for he is the father of lies.

So Joyce Meyer is a Word of Faith / Latter Rain and Emerging Church preacher (Yes Emerging, it’s a shock I know) .  She constantly preaches positive confessions.  If you speak good things into your life, then good things will happen.  If you speak positive things, then positive things will happen.  This is exactly the same as the Law of Attraction or Law of Return which IS Occult teaching.

It works on the same principle as witchcraft’s The Wiccan Rede – “If no harm is done, do as you will”.  Or the Emergents;  The Golden Rule  – “Do unto others as you would have them do to you”.  So whatever energy a person puts out into the world, be it positive or negative, it will be returned to that person three times. But this also depends on what you believe and is not necessarily threefold. It could be more, like a hundredfold in Word of Faith teaching lol.  So what is the Eastern philosophical term for all this?  The Law of Karma!

Positive Confession is actually a spell.  You are casting a spell by ‘confessing’ what you want.  All you don’t have is a wand, but you do have a Joyce Meyer spell book.  All Joyce Meyer’s is short of is a hat and a broom.

Years ago Word of Faith entered the public scene with massive revivals through the likes of William Branham et al.  The ‘religion’ of Word of Faith is a culmination of Metaphysical cult ideas mixed with Orthodox Christian teaching.   But no one knew this back then, everyone raised their hands and said, ‘Hallelujah!’  Church became exciting, the spirit was moving and people were being ‘saved’ left right and centre.  The Baptists were old school, the Methodists, well no one was really sure what they believed, but the Charismatics…well, they were genuine men and women of God.

Word of Faith teaching ±70 years ago contained 90% genuine Christian teaching.  ±30 years ago it contained 80% genuine Christian teaching.  Now they are 99% false teaching.  It’s so bad that they now openly proclaim the Little God teaching i.e.,  All is God and God is in All (Pantheism/Panentheism).  They have taken scripture in the bible and twisted it completely, with no shame what-so-ever!

So when the bible tells us that when you are genuinely saved, the Holy Spirit comes to abide in you and you are then continuously filled with the Holy Spirit as you grow in your faith and become like Christ.  They on the other hand are actually referring to the fact that you actually become a Christ.  That you can do what Jesus did, that you can now have the SAME authority as Jesus did by speaking your god faith out loud!  That as you grow in knowledge you move up the Transcendental ladder and will one day be on the same level as Jesus Christ.  Of course they did not preach this message outright ±20 years ago, and would deny that this is what they actually meant (some of them not even sure what they meant).  NOW they openly say it, but still have the audacity to deny that this is what they really mean.  How stupid do they think we are?  Well it seems most meet their expectations.

Ever wondered why Word of Faith teachers always have such lavish stage settings of gold chairs, gold ornaments and ridiculous over the top bling.  Are they trying to recreate heaven?  Are they little gods in their heaven on earth?  Just a thought.

So here is Joyce Meyer teaching the Little God teaching.  Notice how she first says she does not agree with the teaching and then goes on to agree with the teaching and then quotes scripture (very fast of course) to back-up the teaching.  They have to make sure you will never keep up.

Why do we not notice these oh so obvious things?  Or do we notice these things and instead of being utterly disgusted we push them aside and make like we did not hear it? All the while it’s been embedded in our subconscious.  Like subliminal messages of, “it might come as a shock, but you know you like it”.

The god with a little g that we are supposed to be as per Joyce Meyer is The Christ consciousness that the Occult teach we all have inside of us.  And Word of Faith / Latter Rain teach the exact same thing. They just speak the message differently, using different examples and different terminology.  But it’s the exact same New Age idea.   She speaks about Jesus Christ, but she is NOT speaking about the real Jesus Christ of the Bible but the Occult Christ that embodies all religions and allows us to think we are gods (big or small g it does not matter).  For all is God and God is in All.

New Age teaching is not new!  It’s ancient satanic knowledge that has been purposely made known, let out of the proverbial Pandora’s box in order to ensnare the entire world at just at the right time in history – the end times.  What once was a secret is no more.  Now you can get The Secret first hand at your local Christian book store, step by step instructions on how to ascend to god level.

I have transcribed the Joyce Meyer video, cos reading at ones own pace will hopefully help you take in what she is really saying.

Joyce Meyer teaches little god teaching:

“He and I were listening to a set of tapes by one man, he explained it like this….and I think this kinda gets the point across.  [note: wonder why she does not mention Creflo Dollars name as he proposed the little God theory quite a while back]

He said:  “you know, why do people have such a fit about God calling His creation His creation? His man, not his whole creation but His man, little gods? If He is God what’s He gonna call them?  But the god-kind! I mean if you as a human being have a baby you call it a humankind, if, if cattle have another cattle, they call it cattle kind.  So I mean, what’s God supposed to call us? Does not the bible say we are created in His image?” (Amen from the audience).

Now you understand I’m not saying you are God with a capital G.  That is not the issue here!  So don’t go trying to stone me or yell blasphemy at me.  The bible says, right here in John 10:34…let’s read this again, well lets just start again from verse 32. (Notice how she reads the Bible at Mach 1 speed)

“Jesus said to them, My Father has enabled Me to do many good deeds. [I have shown many acts of mercy in your presence.] For which of these do you mean to stone Me? The Jews replied, We are not going to stone You for a good act, but for blasphemy, because You, a mere Man, make Yourself [out to be] God. Jesus answered, Is it not written in your Law, I said, You are gods?”  (Joyce adds by saying, “little g” to the end of the verse.  Note:  This verse is taken from the Amplified bible)

So men are called gods by the law, men to whom gods message came and the scripture can not be set aside, cancelled or broken, or annulled.  Now if this is true, (Joyce is now referring to Jesus speaking) “You say of the the One whom the Father consecrated, dedicated, set apart for Himself, and sent into the world, you are blaspheming because I said I am the Son of God!  See when He began to say, “I’m the Son of God”, then they began to yell blasphemy.

Well I want you all to know that you are sons and daughters of All Mighty God. (Amen from audience). He has birthed us, we are born again, new creatures in Christ Jesus. We need to understand who we are, and what it is we’re supposed to be doing. And if we can get that revelation refreshed in us, but stay in some realm of balance, then I believe that God can use us in this last hour for many mighty acts and in the process we can give Him all the glory.

Oh I tell you I feel good about this. Don’t you feel good about it? (Amen from the audience).

I wish you had an amplified bible in front you but if you don’t then you may just have to listen here. If we study Psalm 82:

“GOD STANDS in the assembly [of the representatives] of God”  (Joyce then interrupts and says, “That’s us you know, see I’m a representative of God.  The bible says that God stands in the midst of those representatives. She then carries on with the verse). “…in the midst of the magistrates or judges He gives judgement [as] among the gods.” (She ends verse saying “little ‘g” then continues).  “…How long will you [magistrates or judges] judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? [pause, and calmly think of that]!” Verse[sic] 3,  (Joyce adds: He might as well just add here, “this is why I’ve given you power”) “…that you can do justice to the weak (poor) and fatherless; maintain the rights of the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy; rescue them out of the hand of the wicked”.

God has given us power and authority in these last days, that we might help hurting people. Let me ask you a question;  “When He empowered the twelve and He empowered the seventy what did He tell them?  Go preach the gospel, cast out devils, heal the sick? Every where you go help, hurting people!  We’ve got to understand that when power is delegated to us it is to help hurting people! (Amen from audience). It’s not for us to go and necessarily try to help ourselves all the time. But to help hurting people! And certainly you want to take authority over the enemy when he is coming against you. But the main thing is you want to help hurting people.

“Verse 5, …[The magistrates and judges] know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in the darkness [of complacent satisfaction];  (Joyce adds: “Now this is interesting…”) …all the foundations of the earth [the fundamental principles upon which rests the administration of justice] are shaking.”

I was listening to a man teach this week and he said that because people are not taking their proper places. Because God’s people are not taking their proper places everything on the earth is out of balance. All the foundations of the earth is supposed to be built upon are shaking in this hour. Cos God’s people are not taking their proper places! We’ve let the devil have what belongs to us! (Audience responds with approval).

Verse 6;  “I said, You are gods [since you judge on My behalf, as My representatives]; indeed, all of you are children of the Most High.”

It is important that we know who we are and that we walk with that power consciousness.”

And if that does not convince you that the Christ she speaks of is NOT the Jesus Christ of the Bible but the New Age Christ.  Then have a look at this:

——————

[DTW emphasis and notes in green below]

Are you a Joyce Meyer Ministries fan?  [1] (taken from http://www.thevoiceforlove.com/joyce-meyer.html)

If you enjoy Joyce Meyer’s teachings and want to hear God’s loving Voice within you in a very clear and recognisable way, you’re in the right place!

Joyce Meyer is a true blessing to millions of people all over the world who desire to deepen their relationship and communication with God. As a leading Christian evangelical teacher, Joyce Meyers clearly demonstrates her deep and abiding relationship with Jesus Christ through the way she lives, as well as through her many inspiring and life changing books. Joyce Meyer is a testament that God speaks to each of us, regardless of our personal backgrounds or challenges in life.

But there is something important that you may not realise.

God speaks to each of us exactly where we are.

What does that mean?

It means that God speaks to us exactly where we are on our path.

Let me give you an example.

Imagine a row of seven people sitting in front of you: a 6-year-old child, a physicist, a Catholic priest, a rebellious teenager, a mother of 10 children, a Buddhist monk, and a police officer. Now imagine that each one of these people asks God the same exact question. It could be about anything…. What would be in the highest good for me to say or do as I walk past this beggar on the street? What is my true purpose in life? What message would you have me impart to this group of elementary school students on career day? How can I best serve the world? Is it my highest good to invest in the stock market? What should I say or do when someone yells at me or threatens me?

Regardless of the question, do you know what each person is going to hear when they ask God the same question as everyone else?

They’re going to hear something totally unique to them. The 6-year-old child will not receive the same answer as the rebellious teenager, the Catholic priest, or the police officer. The mother of 10 will hear something different than the physicist or Buddhist monk. Each person has their own background, education, and belief system. Each one is learning their own unique lessons in life. Therefore, God will speak to each person exactly where they are on their path. One person may be learning about kindness or compassion, while another person may be learning about forgiveness, abundance, or self-empowerment. What one person needs to hear to re-connect with God [Note: The god of all beliefs/religions, all paths lead to the same god] and their True Self  [Note: Christ consciousness] is most likely different than what another person needs to hear.

In addition, we are constantly evolving and changing in our understanding and awareness. The lessons we were learning 10 years ago are most likely different from the lessons we are learning today. [Note: God says His Word is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow].  In fact, who we are in this moment is different than who we were three months ago, three weeks ago, and even three days ago. Each time we open up to a deeper understanding and experience of Love and Peace in our lives, the fabric of our mind changes. We could probably ask God the same question every year for the rest of our lives and receive a different answer every time we asked because what we are learning and assimilating in each moment is different. [Note:  Emergent teaching that the bible can be interpreted any which way you want, depending on who you are, where you live and what mood you are in]. What we need to hear right now to restore ourselves to God is unique to this moment.

What does this have to do with Joyce Meyer?

Joyce Meyer is a beautiful soul and a wonderful teacher. She shares God’s Voice with millions of people all over the world in exactly the right way for them. But what if it were possible for you to hear God’s Voice just as clearly and intimately as she does?

What if you could experience God’s unconditional love for you EXACTLY AS YOU ARE?

What if you could learn to love yourself unconditionally, let go of ALL self judgement, fear, and guilt, and experience the freedom and peace of knowing that you remain exactly as God created you to be?  [Note: no such thing as sin anymore].  What if you could learn how to hear God’s Voice within you in a very clear and recognisable way so that you can receive the comfort, guidance, and healing that you seek in your life?

If your answer is YES, now is the time to take the next step and receive the unconditional love and guidance that God has to give you.

Here are the products offered by this website:  [emphasis added]

If you want to:
  • Transcend the world
  • Experience more happiness in your life
  • Recognise the divinity within all people
  • Remember your divine nature
  • Use the business of the world to awaken
  • Develop more consistency with your spiritual practises
  • See the world through God’s eyes
  • Understand the connection between being and creation
  • Fulfil your life’s purpose
  • Experience your divine innocence
  • Recognise your holiness
  • Discover your divine gifts
  • Uncover your heart’s desire
  • See the presence of God in all things
  • Experience Oneness
  • Live heaven on earth
  • Strengthen your creativity
  • Let go of unnecessary rules on your spiritual path
  • Develop more consistently with your meditation practise, and
  • Experience Enlightenment 
THEN….

Close your eyes as you listen to these guided meditations and allow the words of the Holy Spirit to gently guide your awareness ever deeper into the experience of your Divine Self!

source:  http://www.thevoiceforlove.com/joyce-meyer.html

—————-

This website is dedicated to New Age Spirituality, Mysticism and Christ Consciousness (all Occult teaching). This website also thinks Joyce Meyer is the greatest thing since someone found holes in the moon.   If Joyce Meyer was preaching genuine Christian teaching, this website would have been dedicated to someone other than her.  The reason why they pick her as a beautiful, loving soul is because they are speaking the same language – they both believe the same Christ Consciousness Occultism.

NEVER EVER will genuine Christians agree in ANY WAY with false teaching.  And genuine Christians will NEVER EVER make excuses for wicked people’s behaviour either.  If you make excuses for them, then you belittle Jesus Christ. 

Conclusion:  

Joyce Meyer is just another Oprah Winfrey.  BUT Joyce Meyer is WORSE because she tells everyone she is a Christian, reads out of the bible and preaches to Christian audiences.   Oprah is at least honest and admits she is not a Christian and refuses the Bible in every way. At least with Oprah, we know what we are dealing with.   Joyce Meyer is conniving, lethal in her message, and a liar second to none.

Here is the Joyce Meyer Youtube video that I transcribed above:


 

Resources:
[1] http://www.thevoiceforlove.com/joyce-meyer.html
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_Three_(Wiccan))
         
pixel Joyce Meyer is a Little God With a Big Christ Consciousness

94 comments to Joyce Meyer is a Little God With a Big Christ Consciousness

  • gbrgirl

    I’ve stumbled onto you website today and find it quite interesting. I am certainly going to read as much as I can. I would just like to find out – almost everyone you point out as a false teacher is someone whom I’ve heard of before. Could you perhaps list some people whose work we can read that you consider to be genuine?

  • Discerning The World

    gbrgirl

    You can check the recommended links on the right hand side just above Map o’ Visitors. I am going to update it with more soon. Just keep forgetting. You can also go read Anton Bosch http://www.antonbosch.org. He is cool. And read info by Justin Peters http://www.justinpeters.org. He is cool too!

  • Discerning The World

    Gob snacked

    >> Joyce has helped so many of us in our christian walk

    Oh so it was not Jesus Christ but Joyce….hmmmm….interesting.

  • Gob smacked

    You know, I honestly believe what you are saying is so wrong – not just about Joyce but also for you. If you were a true christain you would know that you never slate anyone. ” Vengence is mine says the Lord” Joyce has helped so many of us in our christian walk and I am saddened at the aggressive, hateful tone in which you write. Rather worry about sorting yourself out and leave everyone else alone. I will pray for you.

  • lisa

    thanks dtw. only those without itchy ears will be able to hear the Truth. all glory to God, and His Son, Jesus Christ forever and ever

  • Discerning The World

    Please explain to me in more detail the oxymoron of a Jealous Bretheren?

    Not gonna even comment on the rest of the stuff you wrote. My article is rather revealing. No rocket science needed to figure out that she has helped millions of people relate with the New Age Christ through her holy words (books, cds, dvds)

  • Glenda

    Satan and his allies always want to disparage and accuse the brethren…including Angus Buchan and Joyce Myers !!

    I think they are jealous brethen if not deceivers themselves !!

    Too bad they can’t keep up with what Joyce is saying…they would be blessed if they could…and they would know she is sincerely a Christian woman who has helped millions of people relate more personally to Christ through His Holy Word !!

    Those who want to tear down true believers will not stand in the last day !!

  • Again… someone wanting to pray for the author…

    Joyce Meyer = buzz words

    She says all the rights things (acceptable to man and his flesh), quotes all the scriptures (out of context off course) and talks so fast you can barely make out what she is saying…

    Besides that she is at best a very good motivational speaker – nothing more and not close to being Christian!

    Greetings

    J O

  • Chad

    I am not a fan of Joyce Meyer at all and for some of the reasons you state.

    But she is not by any means an “emerging church” teacher or leader. Why would you think she is? Just because you disagree with her?

    Also, you say this:
    t works on the same principle as witchcraft’s The Wiccan Rede – “If no harm is done, do as you will”. Or the Emergent’s; The Golden Rule – “Do unto others as you would have them do to you”.

    Why would you put a wiccan saying next to one of Jesus’ sayings and pass them off as the same thing? You do know that what you call “the Emergent’s” rule is really the way of Jesus, don’t you? Why would you disparage that or say it is like a Wiccan proverb?

    Do you think we shouldn’t do what Jesus commands us to do? Scripture teaches that if we love him we will. So then why make fun of those Christians who strive to do just that?

  • cecilia

    MINISTRY WATCH – DONOR ALERT – June 2005

    Very interesting site to “stumble upon”!

    Now I know many are gonna be very upset for me highlighting this document, but hey! It’s not for the money’s sake I’m doing this – rather I’m emphasizing the proven fact that most of these “ministry people” ride on their followers’ backs! And then have the audacity to claim that “God” is prospering them!

    MinistryWatch.com calls upon donors to prayerfully consider withholding contributions to Joyce Meyer Ministries/Lifein the Word, Inc. (JMM) in response to new facts and allegations regarding lavish lifestyles enjoyed by Joyce Meyer and many of her family members. Information about extravagant spending on salaries and other benefits for Joyce Meyer has recently been made public as a result of claims by Jefferson County, Mo. Tax Assessor Randy Holman that JMM is in fact a business and not a church.

    Read full article at:

    cecilia

  • Louder than before

    is it ok if i paste this entry in my blog? i will make your web adress the heading?

  • Discerning the World

    Louder than before

    Would be great, thank you, got to get the message out :)

  • Pete

    Another snake oil seller!

  • Amazed

    Wow ….I feel sick to my stomach with all of this…I dont even know how I stumbled upon your website .. you know I’m only 3 yrs reborn and I’m starting to only find my way now..and so far what I’ve learnt is that we are not to judge as the bible says only God can,we are to overlook one anothers faults and pray for each other,another thing is is that we are not to be conformed to the pattern of this world but be transformed by the renewing of our minds,so that we will be able to test and approve what God’s will is,he’s good,pleasing and perfect will ( so by speaking about the wrong of other’s isn’t that like being comformed to the pattern of this world??)I have just recently bought quite a few teachings on JM and to tell you the truth yes it helps me ..because it’s guidelines for me as to how to meditate on the word so as to stop worrying and other things as well…her background relates a little to mine, but I know who my mentor is …JESUS …at the end of the day we all need encouragement and help from fellow brethrens especially if you not able to hear from God yet ..or dont have a clue as to where to start and yes you are right when we have to check with the holy spirit first…thats what the bible says …for me it all boils down to having your own intimate relationship with Jesus…God handles each of his children differently and for me I’m sure he will tell how much of JM I should listen to and I listen to what is going on inside my heart,so far my heart hasnt said a thing about JM …your website has just made me aware of certain things that are to come & I thank you for that ..once again we need to check our hearts and not analize things with our minds …and as long as we keep in check that it’s not about us but all about JESUS !!!!!AMEN ..oh & one more thing the Golden Rule is scripture so why do you have it as a wiccan thingy?? isnt that contradicting the word of God???just a thought … :0) God bless

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Well… Amazed

    1) As a Christian YOU SHOULD KNOW that exposing false teaching is NOT judging. Show me where I have judged her sin? (No really, please show me).

    2) As a Christian YOU SHOULD KNOW that you are NOT TO tolerate deceitful teachings that lead people AWAY from the Jesus Christ of the Bible to a false Christ (who says that practising meditation is ok when it it NOT OK).

    2a) If you saw a fire in a building would you warn others of the fire or would you just let them burn?

    3) As a Christian who is [quote “….starting to only find my way now…”], don’t you think you should study the Bible instead of Joyce Meyer?? Just a thought.

    3) You judge me, telling me how sick to your stomach you feel about me speaking out against Joyce Meyer’s TEACHINGS.

    3a) Here’s a question, are you judging my sin or what I say? (No really, please answer this question)

    4) You say “…once again we need to check our hearts and not analize things with our minds”

    Nope! You check, test, weigh, rebuke, teach, etc, with your MIND, that is why God gave you a BRAIN so you can think WITH A SOUND MIND. When your ability to reason has been removed and you mind is clear (this is what meditation does) you can no longer reason and when you can no longer reason, any reason to check scripture to see if what you are following is the truth disappears too.

    So Amazed, I hope you go and do some research on what MEDITATION really is, and when you read, believe it or not but you use your mind and not your heart ;)

    Lastly: Thank you for exposing her more by confirming that she gives meditation guidelines and teaches NEW AGE OCCULT prayer.

  • Michael Anthony

    I have noticed that people that follow this woman get addicted to her books and tapes. You go into her service with one problem and you come out realizing that you have 10 new problems. It’s a psychological trick to keep you coming back for more, there is just enough scripture there not to want to distrust the woman. She is a christian version of Dr Phil.

  • Annunk

    I used to listen to her every time I saw her on the telle, I even sent my dear mother 2 of her books that’d been advertised…on the telle.

    Then one day..I heard her say, “We are all little gods, all of us”

    That’s when I quit listening to her, found the books I’d given to my mom and threw them away.

    How can so many people be caught up in this bull?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Annunk

    >> How can so many people be caught up in this bull?

    Satan wants mankind to glorify themselves with him at the center. Apparently it would seem that mankind thinks this is a great idea. Best part is they still get to call themselves Christians because they are technically little ‘christs’.

  • serv.of.Christ Gerard Willemse

    It’s very interesting how whenever a false teacher is being exposed, one gets accused of judging yet Scripture says they should be exposed: Ephesians 5:11 – “Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.”

    I was myself accused of judging when I spoke out against the false teaching of a pastor who’s church I attended a few times.

    I just never really had any… uhm… how does one say… inspiration to read or listen to Joyce’s things.

  • louise

    May I brag and say I never ever listened to Joyce. The day my hubby called me and said listen to this woman on TBN dont you think she is a snappy dresser.The moment I heard her my spirit did that “Funny little jiggle” you know the one when you hear a lie and you just know that person is fibbing.”Sweetheart” that woman has biggggggggg issues, turn her off. Phew. Snappy dresser.

  • David North

    Wow ….I feel sick to my stomach with all of this…I dont even know how I stumbled upon your website .. you know I’m only 3 yrs reborn and I’m starting to only find my way now..and so far what I’ve learnt is that we are not to judge as the bible says only God can,we are to overlook one anothers faults and pray for each other,another thing is is that we are not to be conformed to the pattern of this world but be transformed by the renewing of our minds,so that we will be able to test and approve what God’s will is,he’s good,pleasing and perfect will

    This is your problem here on this site ladies and gentlmen…out of the mouths of babes.
    Jesus might say, “I know your zeal” but I think He would also turn to you and say, “…but I have this against you.”.

    I have been a christian for forty years. I am not a Joyce Meyer “follower”–I haven’t heard her in the last decade other than in passing while changing channels on the radio. I am not a participant in any “movement”, claim no title or authority and endorse no particular denomination over another–nor am I ignorant of the fact that there is a a lot of deception and even heresy floating about the so-called Christian world…but I would rather be facing persecution and imprisonment with her and this new Christian than with most of those speaking here.

    It’s a case of the beam judging the specks…and when it does happen to be a beam your judging it doesn’t shrink your own.

    “Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.” Titus 1:15

    In the gaming world there is a tongue-in-cheek adage, “When I win it is always because I am good. When you win it is always because you cheat.”

    Depsite all the “sound theology” espoused here, I see little of the love for Christ. I see a love for doctrine, for strict interpretation, for adherence to absolute standards and I see a glee and delight at tearing visciously at disagreed with…to the point where they are casually derided as devils and antichrists and blasphemers.

    I don’t expect any response to this other than eye-rolling and some stones but you have lost the simplicity that is in Christ and instead become “teachers of the law”. I wouldn’t want your job.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    David North

    Thanks for juding me. And if you want to be New Age, hey go ahead. No one is stopping you. You are freeeeeeeeee to follow any god you wish as per new world religous rules, except real Christianity of course. So that would explain why you are eager go to sit with occultists in jail cells – birds of a feather get stuck in cells together.

  • cecilia

    >>> David North, March 25th –

    In the gaming world there is a tongue-in-cheek adage, “When I win it is always because I am good. When you win it is always because you cheat.”

    this is no game. peoples souls are at stake. with “tongue-in-cheek”: sit in a prison with someone you “haven’t heard over a decade”? yip! you will have much to catch up on… remember, she talks fast…

  • Robbie

    My ex ouderling has been a christian for 70 years and he is still breastfeeding. Somehow he just cannot take in healthy solid food.

    Sorry, Am I off the sublect again?

  • Robbie

    “To judge or not”

    A little in context study for “judge notters”
    Note that I had to be saved first then remove myself from the top of the list of ear ticklers, then really study the Word of God before my eyes were opened…

    Please also watch “call for Discernment” from Justin Peters.

    Should I judge False prophets? (according to biblical parameters)

    Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

    Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
    Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

    Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
    Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

    Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

    1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
    1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

    1Ki 3:11 And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;

    Should I name false prophets? Paul did!

    2Ti 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

    1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

    2Ti 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:

    Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
    Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

    Luk 12:56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?

    Mat 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

    Mal 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

    Eze 44:23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

    Job 6:30 Is there iniquity in my tongue? cannot my taste discern perverse things?

    Ezr 3:13 So that the people could not discern the noise of the shout of joy from the noise of the weeping of the people: for the people shouted with a loud shout, and the noise was heard afar off.

    1Ki 3:9 Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?

    1Ki 3:10 And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing.

    2Sa 14:17 Then thine handmaid said, The word of my lord the king shall now be comfortable: for as an angel of God, so is my lord the king to discern good and bad: therefore the LORD thy God will be with thee.

    Luke speaks to John:
    Luk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
    Luk 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
    Luk 1:78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
    Luk 1:79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

    Warn them!!
    1Th 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.

    Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
    Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
    Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
    Eze 3:21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

    Warn or become responsible!! (OR BE JUDGED!)

    Eze 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand.
    Eze 33:7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.
    Eze 33:8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
    Eze 33:9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

    Eze 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

    You will meet some with Spiritual pride
    1Co 4:18 Now some are puffed up, as though I would not come to you.
    1Co 4:19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.

    Zep 2:10 This shall they have for their pride, because they have reproached and magnified themselves against the people of the LORD of hosts.

    Dan 5:20 But when his heart was lifted up, and his mind hardened in pride, he was deposed from his kingly throne, and they took his glory from him:

    Jer 49:16 Thy terribleness hath deceived thee, and the pride of thine heart, O thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, that holdest the height of the hill: though thou shouldest make thy nest as high as the eagle, I will bring thee down from thence, saith the LORD.

    Jer 13:17 But if ye will not hear it, my soul shall weep in secret places for your pride; and mine eye shall weep sore, and run down with tears, because the LORD’S flock is carried away captive.

    Pro 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

    Pro 14:3 In the mouth of the foolish is a rod of pride: but the lips of the wise shall preserve them.

    Pro 13:10 Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.

    Psa 10:4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.

    Job 35:12 There they cry, but none giveth answer, because of the pride of evil men.

    Should I condemn the wicked?

    Eze 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

  • Robbie

    Talking about waking up…

    Question Deborah.
    Have you noticed Angus’s prayer for our dear president that appeared on the front page of The Sunday News paper?

    “God, help him EVEN IN THE EARLY MORNING HOURS”

    Nice of him to Set a time for God…
    Unless Uncle Angus want Allah to assist too? He is the closest to the earth in the early morning hours, I read…
    Oh yes, Satan also claims the early morning hours (3am) since Jesus died at 3 pm…

    I agree our president needs a lot of help but really…

  • Robbie

    … one more thing please…
    I really am friendlier than this profile pic?… can I change it?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Robbie

    Odd to think that ‘god’ would stop helping him between 3 and 5am and that he needed to be reminded.

    ‘The Star of the Dawn or ‘Blazing Star’ represents the resurrection of Horus into Amsu (Horus was supposedly the first god/man).

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Robbie

    Yeah what you do it you go http://www.gravatar.com and follow the instructions. Find a picture you will want to crop into a square and upload it there – you then link the picture to your email address. So evertime you use this email your picture will show up. TaaaDaaaa

  • Wow what a sceptic you are. it is hard to imagine that you could ever listen to something and just be blessed, sitting on your high and mighty seat of judging everyone’s words and ministries. What a miserable life you must have. Sure, there is a lot of rubbish out there – have you ever considered that scripture that tells us God will seperate the tares and the wheat in His time, because He is not constantly ‘weeding’ like you. Remember Paul said while he was in jail that many people saw his imprisonment as their golden opportunity to make a name for themselves by preaching BUT he said it does not matter because either way the word of God is being preached. The Lord holds this world in His hand and will not allow His children to be deceived – sometimes people want to believe a lie and no one (not even you) can persuade them otherwise. My suggestion is that you spend some of your time getting close to the Lord and developing your own spiritual walk with Him. Believe it or not – He can do it without You! He wants to know you. You have not been called to be the judge and jury

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Michelle

    Okie dokie then. What ever you say.

  • Elmarie A

    michelle
    Do you believe what Joyce Meyer says? Do you admire her? Do you believe she teaches the true gospel?

    Ezekiel 33:6-8 (Amplified Bible)

    6But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet and the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any one of them, he is taken away in and for his perversity and iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand.7 So you, son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore hear the word at My mouth and give them warning from Me. 8 When I say to the wicked, O wicked man, you shall surely die, and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his perversity and iniquity, but his blood will I require at your hand.

    Matthew 24:24
    For false Christs and false prophets will arise, and they will show great signs and wonders so as to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (God’s chosen ones).

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Michelle

    Do you believe you are a little god?

    Why do you think a New Age website would condone Joyce Meyer’s books?

    Did you even read the article properly?

  • Robbie

    Debs?… is it not Joyce that has the “high and mighty” seat? a 50 000 dollar toilet?

  • Robbie

    Joyce Meyer Says:
    “I’m going to tell you something folks, I didn’t stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn’t a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that’s heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I’m righteous and I can’t be righteous and be a sinner at the same time.”
    “Now whether you like it or not, whether you want to admit it or not, whether you want to operate on it or not, you are made the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ. Most people who go to denominational churches never ever hear that! They never hear it! Never! All I was ever taught to say was, ‘I, a poor, miserable sinner.’ I am not poor. I am not miserable. And I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell! That is what I were, and if I still was, then Jesus died in vain. Amen?” (Joyce Meyer, Cassette, From the Cross to the Throne, Life Christian Center, Saint Louis)

    The Bible Says:
    “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.” – 1 John 1:8 & 10

    “For there is no one who does not sin.” – 1 Kings 8:46

    “For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.” – Ecc 7:20

    “This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.” – 1 Timothy 1:15

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    hahaha yes she does

  • cecilia

    The commode in question is a term
    for ‘antique chest of drawers’ not a toilet.

    I googled it, because I was gasping for air here man! who wouldn’t give the world for a “throne” like that!?

  • Jenny

    DTW

    Thank you for exposing false teachers. When will people get it into their heads the only truth we need is the Word of God. I have relatives who listen to many of the ‘preachers’ on television, most of whom you have exposed as false. I came upon this site when I googled an evangelist who recently held a large conference which has now been televised. I watched the program but had an uneasy feeling that ‘something was not quite right’ ~ but I was perplexed to find that there are so many questionable ministeries.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Jenny

    >> but I was perplexed to find that there are so many questionable ministeries.

    You ain’t seen nothing yet. It’s about 1,000,000 times worse than you think. But the bible says, REJOICE because that means Jesus is really close at hand. We are living in a time when the attack will get worse and worse, minute by minute, second by second.

    3 years ago I would write an article and take 2 – 3 weeks to prepare my research. Now I can’t keep up. Things change by the day.

  • Rista

    DTW, I used to listen to JM until I heard her telling about the time she ‘commanded’ God to show them whales as the whale-watching trip was quite expensive. What kind of message does that convey to people? That God can be ordered around? Sjees. She was one of the few people on TBN that did not make me uncomfortable – these days I simply do not switch to the channel any longer. Rather study my Bible. Tnx anyway for your information on this site – I also have a passion to warn people about the ongoing deception. Scary how many people do not even WANT to hear – they think they are ok if they do not know about everything.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Rista

    Reminds me of the story of Gloria Copeland telling her congregation about the time they were in their airplane and a tornado appeared in the distance. And Kenneth Copeland commanded the tornado to disappear and ‘shooooppsss’ it just unravelled itself down to the ground. So then continued to tell the congregation that Kenneth is like a weatherman – where ever they go they never have bad weather because he just clears those skies.

    I wonder if that video is on Youtube.

    And I’d love to know where Joyce went for whale watching because for R250 on the south coast in July you get a good ride out into the ocean on a speed boat type thingie, and get up close and personal with whales who have no problems jumping out the water a few meters away from the boat. Which might I add is very very scary and exciting and amazing all in one go.

  • Randy

    I am not defending Joyce Meyer, but I would like to defend sound argument. You’re ways of writing wouldn’t hold up in a court of law and any good lawyer could shoot your arguments to pieces.

    One example out of many: “This website is dedicated to New Age Spirituality, Mysticism and Christ Consciousness (all Occult teaching). This website also thinks Joyce Meyer is the greatest thing since someone found holes in the moon. If Joyce Meyer was preaching genuine Christian teaching, this website would have been dedicated to someone other than her.”

    This statement of yours defies all sound logic and would never hold up in a court of law. You are basically saying, “if A likes B, and A likes C, then B and C are the same.” If I like apples and I like sunsets, then apples and sunsets are the same. If the website likes new age/occult and the website likes Joyce Meyer, then occult and Joyce Meyer are the same.

    One instance of very faulty logic, but alas, not enough time to dissect all of the faulty logic in your arguments.

  • Elmarie A

    Randy

    “This website is dedicated to New Age Spirituality, Mysticism and Christ Consciousness (all Occult teaching). This website also thinks Joyce Meyer is the greatest thing since someone found holes in the moon. If Joyce Meyer was preaching genuine Christian teaching, this website would have been dedicated to someone other than her.”

    No Yikes halooo Randy huh…. I think you had better read again please. This blog is doing exactly the Opposite of what you are saying in you comment.

    Randy this is a DISCERNMENT blog. It actually Warns against the teachings of Joyce Meyer and many more false teachers and self proclaimed prophets and false churches with false teachings.

    any good lawyer could shoot your arguments to pieces.

    Nooooo Please !!! no one may shoot any one to pieces on this blog!!! lol lol lol lol :-)) We may admonish and correct each other in Love that is the correct way of doing things here.

  • Burning Lamp

    Randy, I wonder what you think about the Proverbs in God’s Word? Would they hold up in your court of law? No, but you know what? They are truth.

    You talk about faulty logic. Sorry but your example makes no sense. Using your style of logic, here is what the article is saying. If A promotes B and C, then A agrees with B and C or thinks they have validity or they wouldn’t promote them. If B and C have false teaching, then A approves of false teaching. B and C don’t have to be the exact same false teaching.

    Anyone who promotes Joyce Meyer and her mixture of truth and error is either undiscerning or deceived or both. We all would do well to weigh the warnings about her teaching. The aim of this site is to protect and alert according to the many warnings in the Word.

    I have found that one of the best ways to test a group or site is to see to whom they link. Birds of a feather flock together. That won’t hold up in court but it sure is true.

    Grace and peace to you!

  • Grant

    Randy

    Firstly and most importantly, this website (Discerning the World that is), owes it’s existence to the fact that the true Gospel needs to be defended AGAINST New Age Spirituality, Mysticism and all Occult teaching.

    This website contains hundreds of articles specifically aimed at exposing the falsities of preachers like Joyce Meyer. How did you come to your conclusion that this site defends Joyce Meyer?

    It is clear from the opinion of 268 articles on THIS website that it stands AGAINST new age/occult teachings. It is clear from the opinion of THIS website that it stands AGAINST the teachings of Joyce Meyer. It is clear from HER teachings that Joyce Meyer is FOR new age/occult.

    Using your simplification then, A opposes B, and A opposes C, because B and C are the same. How does that equate to faulty logic?

    I suggest you read again.

    Secondly, just for interests sake, Christians do not take Christian matters to courts of law, for various reasons. Primarily because God tells us not to 1 Corinthians 6:1-8 which makes it clear that courts of law judge matters of the world according to worldly standards. Appealing to court of law in matters of the church is akin to spiritual defeat. Matters of the church should not be subjected to the laws of men. Why then be a Christian at all?

    Thirdly, how do you know that this author is not a high court judge:)?!

    Peace to you!

  • Amanda

    Randy

    You missed the next sentence that explains in what way they are alike. Here you go:

    The reason why they pick her as a beautiful, loving soul is because they are speaking the same language – they both believe the same Christ Consciousness Occultism.

    By the way, Randy, did you know that one day you will face a righteous Judge and it is not sound logic that can save you from the wrath to come, but faith in a righteous Saviour who died to take the punishment you deserve?

  • Amanda

    Randy

    You caused some confusion there, didn’t you?

    Grant and Elmarie, he was quoting DTW’s article. “This website” does not refer to DTW, but the New Age one who loves Joyce Meyer.

  • Elmarie A

    Amanda

    I do hope Randy comes back and explain what he meant here, because Burning Lamp also seem to understand it the same way Grant and my self did.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Randy

    Oh so your only complaint (one instance) is that I found an Occult website that teaches the same teaching as Joyce Meyer and praises her for it, or should we say Joyce Meyer teaches the same teaching as Occult New Age websites?

    So, if a so called Christian preacher preached from the satanic bible, or a satanist preached from the bible, it would, as per you, be something that should be ignored, not included as VITAL evidence and chucked out of court?

    How about I just chuck you off my blog before you come back with more rubbish to waste our time with.

  • Spliff512

    Are you saying that when Joyce Meyer proclaims that Jesus Christ paid the price for our sins, and that we are righteous, sanctified and justified before God through the sacrifice of our Passover Lamb, whom God ordained and Himself provided for our redemption, she is wrong?

    Imagine for a moment that this site existed during the time of Jesus Christ’s ministry on the earth. Imagine that it was published by righteous and supposedly knowledgeable Jews. (Still God’s chosen people, by the way, then and now.)

    If that were the case, do you think that this site might have even accused Our Lord Himself of false teaching, just as did the Pharisees did?

    Is there anyone teaching and preaching the Bible that you do not consider to be a false teacher?

    Have you ever considered that by taking such a narrow minded religious stance (I use the word religious intentionally) you may be wrong in your judgment?

    At the very least you lose credibility and believability, thereby forfeiting opportunities you may have had to actually expose real threats and dangerous false doctrines.

    Did you ever consider that a possible consequence of this site is that all Christians are thrown into question. You present such a hodge podge of disbelief that it is impossible to gain an over view. This is not helpful nor is it edifying.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Spliff512

    LOL, no wonder you are a Chuck Missler fan – you can’t tell the wood from the trees.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Just a thought… Spliff:

    Your nickname is the name of a marijuana joint.

  • Burning Lamp

    Spliff, DTW is not the only discernment site that has exposed the errors of Joyce Meyer and Missler. Do you not realize that the grestest deception is the mixture of truth and error and that we are living in a time of great peril and false teaching is rampant? Did you read the thread about Nancy Missler?

    The Bible instructs us to test the spirits and to be sober and vigilent.

    It is dangerous to trust in mortal men and women teachers. If one is popular, it means they have had to compromise. Jesus and the Apostles were far from popular. If they were living in our time, they would never have a TV or national ministry because they would have been rejected and worse depending upon the laws of the country where they were ministering. Chew on that thought for awhile.

    As for Missler, he led the parade of paranoia regarding Y2k while voices of reason such as Dave Hunt were predicting it to be a nonevent. Also, he appeared with false prophets on their broadcast some years back and didn’t bat an eyelash. These were people who are into some pretty freaky stuff.

    For your sake I hope you take your blinders off and put on your discernment glasses. Maybe that will help you see more clearly what DTW is trying to accomplish. DTW’s purpose is to edify the Church, protect it from predators and defend the faith. You should be thankful for the hard work and dedication of those who make this ministry possible. And that is exactly what it is – a ministry.

  • Grant C

    Spliff512

    Ordinarily, I would attempt a lengthy answer to a comment such as yours, but at this juncture, it seems that such an effort would prove futile.

    Shortly then, in response to the points you make:

    If Joyce Meyer preaches 51% truth and 49% false Gospel, it doesn’t make her a ‘safe’ teacher. It equates to her being 49% false, and Joyce’s gospel is nowhere near that ‘safe’. One cannot add to or remove from the complete Word of God to create an illusion of truth, no matter how great a preacher one thinks one is. One will have to search quite hard to find someone with greater self-importance than Joyce Meyer. You won’t find a Christian with that attitude, either.

    Your second point is totally irrelevant and not even hypothetically worth considering. Therefore your third point, which is rooted in the second is air…

    Your point concerning the existence of teachers of the true Gospel should certainly be the subject of serious research on your part. Would it be of any value at this point, if we were to point out true teachers to you, if you don’t even believe or know the true Gospel itself? How would you know a true teacher from a false one?

    If, in your opinion, the Bible teaches a narrow-minded religion, then DTW must be regarded as narrow-minded. If you prefer to follow a more liberal, emergent, post-modernist, loosely based interfaith type of religion such as that offered by Joyce Meyer, you are welcome to it. Do not expect true Christians to compromise on Biblical truth in exchange for the rubbish taught by the false teachers of the world

    Your reference to the intentional application of the word religious is fully understood here. We are certainly no strangers to insinuation or implied intellectualism. You must not forget that there are only two sides to religion, no matter what picture the media or any preacher of your choice has led you believe. There are false religions and there is the the Truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you feel that it is acceptable to blend these into a Joyce Meyer type of conglomerative, then you go right ahead and do just that at your peril.

    DTW will certainly not forfeit any opportunities which they could not create in the first place. Your assumption is that God does not create all evangelical opportunities Himself and that He might benefit from mankind’s assistance in this regard. By believing that you are a little god, as Joyce Meyer loves to teach, an inexcusable misinterpretation of Psalm 82:6, you could very well forfeit an opportunity at salvation.

    Much of Joyce Meyer’s teaching IS that real threat and dangerous false doctrine you want us to identify, but are blind to yourself.

    We throw no Christians into question as your concern indicates, but we will continue to expose those persons who preach a false gospel and another Jesus. The hodge-podge you see, is that falsehood which you choose to believe, whereas true Biblical doctrine is simple. The over view you wish to gain will never become clear to you without the Truth of the Bible, as clarified by the Holy Spirit in those who believe.

  • Burning Lamp

    If Spliff chooses to remain in his/her deception it will be without excuse. One can only hope that some of what Grant said gets through the fog – or should we say smoke?

  • What is your purpose for pulling down these men and women of God.Who appointed you judge ,jury and executioner.You neeeeeeed serious deliverance.You need a divine encounter with the true and living God.You are truly decieved or trying to decieve and turn many away from the knowledge of the truth.I cannot even fathom someone spending so many hour of their lives watching and waiting to pick apart the words that come out of the mouthes of these ministers of the gospel.Monitoring their every move.What a sad day it will be for you when you stand before the true and living God.I could just picture you standing before Him when your name is called up on that day.And you with a big grin on your face,thinking I’m about to get my reward for the hard work i’ve put in in pulling down these people.Then your grin turns to absolute shock and horror when “He says depart from me I know you not”.You were not for Me you were against me.

  • PJamas

    Are you convinced that Joyce Meyer is a god?

    Did she tell you that you could be one too and now you are all excited and following her step by step programs – one day you will be able to create your own little planet to go live on?

    Did reading this article burst your bubble and now you are upset because you know that we are right and Joyce Meyer has hoodwinked you..

    Come now Dawn… go read your bible.

  • PJamas

    That previous comment was for Dawn…

    Seems half my comment went missing. I am using Google Chrome. I think it’s the culprit.

  • Olga

    You know Joyce has helped many many people,and we simply love Joyce.And i love u too.But i love The Father,The Son and the Holy Ghost the most.

  • Kevin

    Hi everyone.

    I have been a Christian since I was a kid. Unfortunately I got saved at Rhema Church back in the early 80’s. So I kindof grew up in the “Faith Movement”. For those of you who don’t know what that is, please read the book titled “A different Gospel”. I’m not sure who the author is. Also read “Christianity in crisis” I think its by Henk Hanegraaf(Not sure bout the spelling). Anyway For all those of you knocking Deborah. I must come to her defense somewhat. While I do think that in some ways she may seem to be coming across as a little harsh, I fully understand why. When you realize the devil is in your camp, an anger rises up within you and you have to take action to protect the truth. While I think she could maybe be a bit more patient with some of the younger Christians in the forum I think overall she is coming from exactly the same place as I and many others who have been exposed to continuous false teachings.I myself having been fed with faith movement teaching for most of my life and have had a huge task getting out of it. It had even destroyed my faith for over a decade. You will all find that after opening your heart to such teachings for a length of time, eventually over time you actually find that because you were not infact receiving proper and sound teaching you where therefor not actually growing spiritually and therefore you end up dying and loosing your faith. You may think you are growing at the time and it may feel good, but you are not actually growing in the understanding of the whole truth. There may be elements of truth in the teachings but it is not complete or there is error mixed in. This is very dangerous for you personally and you will later end up with a weak faith and or disillusionment in God. I have found that I have struggled for so many years after having opened my heart to such teachers that even now I am still so skeptical. The sad thing is that most of these teachers catch you when you are still a new Christian with a pure conversion experience and a hunger to grow and learn. The sad thing is that at this stage you have no idea how to judge whether what they are teaching is 100% correct as you have not yet studied the scriptures in its full context with a full understanding. Its only many many years later that you may realize it. In my own life for example. Only after 15 years of exposure to faith movement teaching did I start to question. I then withdrew myself from all that kind of teaching. I then realized I now had the monumental task of having to rediscover what the truth actually was. I also realized I now had to take responsibility to study for myself, getting an understanding of the bible as a whole. It is a huge task mentally and spiritually now because not only must I put in the intellectual effort to study but I must also overcome the emotional damage that has been caused as well. I must also overcome the deep distrust and negative associations I now have with God and the bible due to false teaching. It is going to be a lifelong process. So in light of this I hope you can see why deborah and others may seem so passionate or perhaps may even express anger at these teachers as they are fully aware of the gravity and consequences of such false teaching as am I. I am a testimony to the fact and I must now pay the price for listening to such teachings. But with God’s help we can do it. Please keep in mind that even at the time of Christ, there were allready other false christs. How much more do you think there will be now. Think about that, and with that in mind, keep your eyes wide open, which means everytime you watch TBN or read a Christian book, or goto church you need to protect your mind and continuously analyze what is being said. Even if what is being said seems right, you must be diligent to study the word for yourself.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Kev

    Thanks for that. You are right. I sit here and all I can see are the millions of blindfolded eyes (these are all people) going to hell because of Joyce Meyer. Others don’t see it like that. They just see Joyce Meyer and her smile.

    Many people as well don’t want to know the truth, come on here and attack me never the less just for fun and games. It’s a no win situation sometimes. BUT I MUST SAY, I know many people have been greatly helped by this article! So all’s good! haha

  • iBecky

    I am soooo confused, I am not a supporter of Joyce but I was just reading John 10:34 and the bible does says that. It doesn’t feel right to think that I am a “little god” but I can’t choose what to believe in the bible is either all of it or none of it. Am I reading it wrong?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    iBecky

    Yip, you are reading it wrong. When you read scripture, you need to read the entire passage and also cross reference passages to find it’s EXACT meaning.

    I am going to make you do a bit of thinking here :)

    All these scriptures I am pasting below are all tied together…. read them and figure out what EXACTLY it means:

    John 10:29-39

    29″My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
    30″I and the Father are one.”
    31The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.
    32Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?”
    33The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, (AR)make Yourself out to be God.”
    34Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I SAID, YOU ARE GODS’?
    35″If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
    36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
    37″If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
    38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”
    39Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp.

    Psalm 82

    Unjust Judgments Rebuked.
    A Psalm of Asaph.

    1God takes His stand in His own congregation;
    He judges in the midst of the rulers.
    2How long will you judge unjustly
    And show partiality to the wicked? Selah.
    3Vindicate the weak and fatherless;
    Do justice to the afflicted and destitute.
    4Rescue the weak and needy;
    Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.
    5They do not know nor do they understand;
    They walk about in darkness;
    All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
    6I said, “You are gods,
    And all of you are sons of the Most High.

    7″Nevertheless you will die like men
    And fall like any one of the princes.”
    8Arise, O God, judge the earth!
    For it is You who possesses all the nations.

  • TB

    Hi there
    Since i ended up on this site a few days ago i spent quite some time praying and specifically asking God to guide me and reveal unto me what it is He wants me to learn out of all of it.
    I agree on so many things written and at the same time i have second thoughts about some. Maybe it’s simply because i wonder whether any of us have an 100% understanding of the Bible and of the Truth. It’s all in the Bible – i know and agree! What makes one of us 100% correct and someone else wrong? Most of the times i find that both qoute the Bible. Yes, i know context, spiritual maturity and other play a role, but i’m just wondering… (not pointing fingers and certainly not judging).
    After many hours i ended up with alot of questions i need to get answered (for myself) and i will study the Bible and pray for guidance and wisdom from Christ Jesus until i find them… (is’nt this exactly what you should want or hope for for any individual visiting your site in stead of them agreeing 100%…?)
    What i did realize over the past few days is that not agreeing 100% with someone does’nt mean i’m a lost soul. If i may use an example… whether water baptized or not, it does not determine my salvation. So people have different opinions based on the Word, but i can’t lable them as lost because they don’t agree on this Biblical fact (btw, i am baptized).
    Oh boy… i agree that we need to expose false teachings and at all times allow God to show and convice us where we are (mostly) unknowingly wrong.
    I strongly believe we grow in knowledge and truth of the Bible since no one can completely grasp the full truth the moment of rebirth. We simply don’t know all the Scriptures in the Bible to fully understand it all. We grow. Just as the deciples learnt and grew in their faith and in the truth.
    Thus, while someone is growing I strongly believe that we should show them the way (the truth as in the Bible) and keep on praying that veils will drop and we will not follow people but only follow the Word of God.
    Thus, exposing false teaching is 100% correct, but we have to do it in love. We have to understand that some peopl may truly love Jesus Christ and be sincere in what they do although some knowledge have simply not been shared with them. Not sure i state what i mean correctly… However, i’ve also learned that we have to constantly be open for someone to correct us. We then have the responsibility to go to the Word and to the feet of Christ so He can teach us and guide us through His word. We as people can convince no one – we can only point out and share.
    *sigh* not even sure i’m really getting accross that i have in my heart to share…
    i stand for the Truth – the full truth. Any leaven in it and i will throw it out. But i need God to convince me through His word. Therefore i agree with so many of your comments – people should read their Bibles!!
    One last thing regarding your comment:
    >>I sit here and all I can see are the millions of blindfolded eyes (these are all people) going to hell because of Joyce Meyer.>>
    not sure i understand…. i am a saved Christian and am not convinced that listening to JM (which i’m not) will have me end up in hell. or am i missing something? How do you see anyone getting to heaven?
    To end it all… what is important is for everyone to search for the truth themselves (in the Bible!!) and not whether they agree with us or not. That’s what i constantly pray when people don’t agree on what we say from a Biblical point of view “It’s fine if you don’t agree with me, but please go search for yourself and find the truth from the Word of God. Please go test whether I am correct.”
    God bless you.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    TB

    >> Thus, exposing false teaching is 100% correct, but we have to do it in love. We have to understand that some peopl may truly love Jesus Christ and be sincere in what they do although some knowledge have simply not been shared with them.

    Tell me where I have not done anything in love TB? I write the way I write, I call a spade a spade – truth is truth. In the article I wrote for DDWM I did with much prayer for Luzanne and Melinda. As I said at the end of the article, are they ignorant of what they are doing? Or are they doing it on purpose… only time will tell. But if they are ignorant and they can change and learn the Gospel truth and become a wonderful ministry for God.

    Sometimes to get the shock of your life that you are on the wrong path and to be ripped out of it onto the narrow path is the best way to realise how much God is actually watching each and every one of us and a great testimonial.

    >>I sit here and all I can see are the millions of blindfolded eyes (these are all people) going to hell because of Joyce Meyer.>>
    not sure i understand…. i am a saved Christian and am not convinced that listening to JM (which i’m not) will have me end up in hell. or am i missing something? How do you see anyone getting to heaven?

    You are missing the point completely. Many women have gotten ‘saved’ under Joyce Meyer’s false Word of Faith Doctrine. And if you tell them the truth about Joyce Meyer they would rather die and protect her than open their bibles just an inch and check to see if what I am saying is true. Some women have gone so far as to study the Joyce Meyer way and have been indoctrinated with FALSE bible studies – so when you explain to them what a verse means, the just can’t see the truth because they have been taught the Joyce Meyer way. Therefore unless God rips these women out of the false church they are in, yes, they are going to hell.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    TB

    I am happy to see you are reading my blog more and taking these things to scripture and prayer. It’s the only way TB.

  • Burning Lamp

    TB, there are certain fundamentals that cannot be compromised. You mentioned water baptism. Some believe you must be baptized to be saved – this is called baptismal regeneration. This is a false teaching and destroys the Gospel of grace which is not of works. If one is depending upon their baptism to save them, it is quite possible that they are not saved. I have seen this in people I know very well. There is just as much emphasis placed upon the act of baptism as there is on the faith. That is a very serious error – false teaching. The Bible teaches that salvation is a free gift and that baptism is a demonstration of what has taken place in the heart. It is called believer’s baptism – an outward sign of an inward change.

    The Bible is 100% truth but must be rightly divided.

    Also, the Lord can use a false teacher to lead someone to Christ, but it is His Word that does the work. The danger comes, as Deb says, when the person continues to follow the false teacher and does not get properly discipled in the Word. New believers are babes and must be given the true milk of the Word and then the meat when they are ready.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    TB

    Yip, I would recommend that book.

  • TB

    BL, we’re saying the same thing – i agree 100% with what u have said.
    May we continue to show people the truth in love and remember that we are not there to convince them but point them to the truth. Convincing is the work of the Holy Spirit. That’s why i don’t mind if people don’t agree with me, because it’s not about me it’s about the truth of the gospel which they will eventually find if they search for it in the Word of God. Years ago I found it, they will to. Let’s keep on praying more than anything else.
    Keep well & God bless.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    TB

    You didn’t answer my question. Where have I said anything that is not in love?

  • Burlning Lamp

    Thanks TB, glad we are on the same page. I didn’t get from your comment that you meant that Debs didn’t speak the truth in love – but maybe I missed something. Anyway, she has a spunky style and some may interpret it as unloving, but the motivation behind this blog is love, love for God’s truth and love for sheep that are being led to the slaughter. She has little patience with wolves who promote false teaching,those who support them and neither do I. She rips off their masks with no apologies necessary. Jesus was no namby-pamby – He cleansed the temple and lit into the self-righteous legalists.

    Grace and peace to you also and may the Lord lead and guide you into all truth.

  • Jenny

    I am filled with doubt about the accuracy of this whole article. Surely someone who believed they can discern a false teacher would know the Golden Rule is not pagan, but the words of Jesus Christ himself.

    Luke 6:31
    31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Jenny

    You can be filled with doubt until the cows come home, the truth still remains the truth. Those are HER WORDS, “I am a little God”.

    And pagans use the Golden rule as well. So your point is? You want to be a god too but don’t want anyone to point fingers at you? WHAT DID SATAN say to EVE in the garden of Eden?

  • Steve

    I renounced a deep occult and new age life for the sake of Christ. I needed to cause it nearly took my life. Having fallen for so many false teachings when into the new age/occult I can smell them a mile off. I have heard them all before and Joyce Meyer is blatantly new age and self-help in her philosophy. It jumped out at me where she said how we can “give God glory in the process.” I am sorry Joyce, but God’s glory is the ONLY reason we should do anything, not just give Him glory in a process we are happening to go through. She blatantly twists scripture. Saying we are all Gods, whether with a little or captiaal G is something that I heard numerous times in the new age/occult. We are humans and God’s children. We are supposed to depend on HIM for all our needs, not conjure them up by the power of our positive thoguths. As the article said, and I speak from past practice, this is an essential practice in witch craft. To be honest, since I left that balloney behind I do not need to think myself into a better life, because God is quite capable of providing what we need. And where in the Bible say that we are to expect happiness and no problems? Yes, we get joy in the Lord, but we are told to expect troubles and persecutions. If she cannot cope with being accused of false teaching and has to lash out against it, then that just shows she is not living for Christ who told us we would be persecuted. In fact He told us to rejoice when we are, not kick against it as she does.

    With regard to taking planks out of eyes. We are told to love everyone, but to HATE SIN. We are instruicted to expose the deeds of darkness. And after learning for myself the sheer dangers of teachings such as Joyce Meyers I would not be faithful to the Lord if I turned a blind eye, none of us would. It is our duty as Christians to speak against the evils of this world, even at the cost of ourselves being given a hard time. Those on here who have spoken against this evil, for the right reasons – ie. exposing the truth, they have clear consciences. We are to spread the true word of God, not suppress it with people pleasing philosophies.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Thanks Steve

  • Michael

    You are spot on Steve…I started to see the falseness in these charlatans too…Joyce Meyer is way off and belongs to the lying brigade…I was worshipping in one of these word faith set-ups…it was all about money…big money…one of the deacons is one of the top 28 billionaires in SA…these people are obsessed by money…okay it is not a sin to be rich but to love and worship money, materialism and comfort is…I was castigated by the pastor for denouncing Benny Hinn as a false prophet…he actually told me to repent as I was speaking against God’s annointed even though Benny Hinn is a liar and yes so are most of the gang. When I started to read the lies and statements these imposters made it was my saving grace…I fled and today I realise that we must pray for God’s mercy on these people and that He brings them to a place where they can and want to repent.

    It is a deep and dark sinister thing happening in the church today…it has a very big stronghold on people because people love pleasure,power, indulgence and ego…no different to the world…prosperity is a very evil cult. Yes God does supply your needs if you trust Him but never your greed…when I see people prospering and claiming it from the Lord I often ask the question…is it God or is it the devil…God supplies your needs but the devil spoils us??

  • Dave Sharp

    Joyce has been off the track for quite some time, pity, she is a powerful speaker. I used to listen to her everyday when I first became a Christian but found from an apologist how she so eloquently twisted the word. I will still pray for her, she serves the wrong master and needs saving…

  • Paul

    Hi Deborah,
    I sent this article to a good friend of mine who is a big fan of Meyer, hoping and praying her eyes will be openned.
    She replied to me that she read the article and couldn’t discern what the author found wrong with Meyer (what the author is reproaching Meyer). She says the article is very superficial and is very lacking in depth. She says her answer to the author are the following 2 passages:
    Matthew 12:24-28 and Philippians 1:12-18

    She could have commented directly on the blog, but she chose to reply to me instead. I don’t know if there is any use for me asking her to send her reply as a comment on the blog.

    I’m very saddened and will continue praying for her.

    Please keep on the good work, and the Lord Jesus Christ will continue using this blog to open the eyes of a few. Yes, saddly, only a few.

    Paul

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Paul

    That’s the usual response from Joyce Meyer fans

  • Michael

    You cannot reason or debate with WOF followers…no objectivity or logic can be seen by these people…they are spiritually blind…they are people followers and experience believers…some of them do read the bible but manipulate words and meaning to fall in line with their worldly desires and lusts…prayer and the mercy of God’s intervention are the only hope.

  • Starlight

    We were exposed to the WoF between 2007-2009. What a roller coaster experience. My hubby got out of church and taught sunday school just not to sit under their teaching. The HS dealt with me then. It was an experience I am glad for as it opened my eyes to so much error being preached in churches who once held to sound doctrine. I am a Baptist from birth and grew up in a time when we received sound Biblical teachings and solid foundations were set early in our lives and after salvation. That kept me from being totally deceived by the WoF teachings. Today, I no longer can make the claim that the Baptist church preaches a sound doctrine – they have embraced Calvinism. I weep.

  • Teri Johnson

    Just wanted to leave this link here for you all.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Teri

    You forgot the link.

  • Suzanne Enos

    The very first line of your article tells me simply this…you are very jealous of Joyce Meyers. You fear her power..which she doesn’t own, but gives all credit to God. The fact that you are judging her tells me that you neither read the scriptures or follow them. There is no need for all of this discussion; a person will be revealed by their fruits ! All of the time spent ripping apart another person could be time spent doing God’s work…so God speed to you all !

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Suzanne

    >> you are very jealous of Joyce Meyers

      Yes, that must be it….. not

    >> The fact that you are judging her tells me that you neither read the scriptures or follow them

      I’m not judging her, the words she speaks JUDGES her, if she blasphemes Jesus Christ and speaks occult terminology, then she judges herself in God’s eyes. Matt 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

    >> a person will be revealed by their fruits

      Yes, her fruit is the unbiblical WORDS that come out of her mouth and the subsequent false salvation that people fall under thereafter.
  • Redeemed

    Suzanne, Deborah IS doing the Lord’s work by laboring on this website, by doing research which is a labor of love for the Lord’s sheep who are being ravaged by wolves who speak lies and appear as angels of light. They are the ones who are doing the “ripping”, and they need to be exposed. The Bible says this is what should be done.

    It offends people when their favorite “ox” gets gored, but those who fail to listen do so at their peril. I have listened to Joyce Meyer and she is quite convincing in many ways. This is because she speaks truth but cleverly weaves in error so it will less likely be detected. That is why there is a great need for a ministry like DTW. i hope you come to realize this.

  • Kitty

    I live in Houston and recently JM came to town to visit. I had been listening to her site occasionally for uplifting messages. It was held in the Lakewood Church. I arrived early. What proceeded really changed my opinion of her ministry. She and three people took an hour and half to barrage the audience with pleas for money and book sales. Each time a different speaker would get up and talk about a new book, calender or study guide. When she got up, she sounded almost bitter than she had to preach the good word and that “paying” for this was a service. She actually put a guilt trip on the audience, about how she was doing this good work and somebody has to pay. She actually caught herself when she realized how she sounded. None of this is on her website, only the messages. I have read Battle field of the mind and it is good. I have seen some uplifting messages that have helped me. Whenever she got up to preach she ran out of time, and complained about it. She began her message with how she thought the padded heated toilet seat in her hotel room was luxurious, and as an anecdote during about how she was sad about a fur coat her friend bought instead of she. I at the moment am poor, living off charity. This entire thing just made me feel bad. I came because I needed a word of encouragement to make it through another day. Instead I was cajoled for money for an hour and half, then made to feel like she lived a lavish out of touch lifestyle. The service was mostly about as I remember being nice to your employers and not talking bad about them. Unfortunately what I believe is that it is pride. I do believe JM is a christian who does good with her charities. However, I believe that her money, power, and ego can corrupt even the best person. The service was more about Joyce than anything else and her payday. I think that she is living a lifestyle that is extremely expensive for how desperate they seem. I heard on a radio interview she won’t fly first class but own a 16 million dollar jet. She thinks she is owed these things, all I can say is how many churches or orphanages in Africa would 16 million dollars fund? how many people would that feed? How many churches could it start in missions? Yes God blesses us, but we are supposed to bless others more.

  • [delete – no insults welcome]

  • @ Rebecca:
    My intention was not to insult you, I was merely commenting on how I feel your attitude may affect people in a negative manner. I will pray for you as I hope you pray for those you feel are misguided.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Rebecca

    No please not pray for me, thank you. You ‘feelings’ were totally incorrect..

  • Redeemed

    Like so many TV and international ministries, JM hides behind a facade of humanitarian endeavors. Just look around – there seems to be a pattern, doesn’t there? Humanitarian efforts are good when they are done in the name of the Lord with the motive of sharing the Gospel, but when they are done by a false teacher as a cover for their error, they become tainted and as filthy rags.

  • anna

    You are the deceivers

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    anna

    I could possibly say the same about you?

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